My Complete Suspension Comparisons to date, Springs, shocks, Coilovers ETC. READ

[byklin]

Anyone have pictures of the max drop on the kw v3? 2" front and 1.5" back? Just wondering what it looks like

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[EricSMG]

I understand all that, and as a (now retired) engineer I'm very familiar with the idea of engineering your way toward a solution. But at some point you still have to stop crunching numbers, put the calculator down, and just drive the damn thing.

Your later point on damper adjustability is well-taken, and that's one of the big reasons I'm running on Koni yellows. Different settings for the track, for just me driving, and for when my wife is along for more than a couple of miles at a time. It's maybe a 5 minute job including the time it takes to open the hood and trunk and run around the car to change the settings.

Specific to virtually all of the coilover kits is that they lower the car way too much for my taste (3/4" is more than borderline too much and 1" is definitely too much). Both from a geometry point of view and because I really don't like the way a car looks when the wheels are clearly uncentered in the wheelwell openings (makes it look like the car is overloaded or has cut, heated/collapsed, or really tired springs). I realize that most people don't look past the gaps at the tops of the tires, but I can't help seeing the whole way around the openings and can't un-see what I've seen and don't like.


Norm

Norm, I can tell you and I are going to get along. Our thought processes are very much aligned.

In my younger years (40 now) I cared mostly about 'stance' but as I've gotten older, anything more than about 1/2" lower than stock looks kinda strange for precisely the reason you mention. Further, without very careful attention to the entire 'package', dropping more than that usually comes with major compromises to both ride quality AND handling. Agree, a full inch is counterproductive. That's why I'm extremely hesitant to lower this car, since, not a single aftermarket 'spring' offering drops the car within 1/2" of stock, all around.

I also agree that there's not better 'testing' than getting behind the wheel. Suspension is largely subjective. Two cars can be made to 'go around a corner' extremely fast while feeling totally different doing so. One can be calm and relaxed while the other twitch and nervous. The former, of course, will actually be the better 'handling' car from behind the wheel since it will be easier to drive fast.

Good stuff.

Edit - your screen name looks awfully familiar to me. Corner carvers, Corral, etc,, like 15 years ago?

 

[Norm Peterson]

I'm not above shimming/spacing to get lowered ride heights or suspension heights up, always with due consideration for maintaining spring end location. The latest time was only a couple of months ago, for my '08, that needed to go up at least half an inch and started out like this . . . it'd be a bit more complex of a job for an independent suspension. Shouldn't have to do this sort of thing, but it is what it is.

Yes to both of those places, and from just about that far back. I still pop in from time to time. I can't be bothered with setting up a different username for every site I might join . . . and then try to remember which one goes where when the sites stop remembering who I am.


Norm

 

[EricSMG]

Yep, I've shimmed up my M3s using these:

http://www.energysuspensionparts.com/universal-coil-spring-isolators.asp

May have to do that with this car.

 

[Meraki Autoworks]

Nice writeup!

-Josh

 

[MustangCollector]

UPDATED THREAD WITH MORE TEST RESULTS

Its been some time since i have posted in this thread and have some time now to share some more thoughts on a few options.

Update :9/29/16

I have had the chance to finally test out some BMR Lowering springs the SP080 and the Handling versions.

I tested the SP080 spring on a friends 2016 GT PP, I am so impressed how damn good these springs are matched to the OEM PP shocks. the car feels so balanced for the street, squats when you launch hard and just feels and rides perfect in my opinion, the stock PP set up bounced like crazy out back but somehow BMR did some magic on their lowering and slight increase in spring rate. I also contribute the good manners to the linear springs if you read my older reviews i raved about the Steeda Ultralights. I will say this again I just dislike all progressive rate springs for the S550 because where I live and drive the car bounces to damn much and makes the car feel out of balance.

As much as i liked the Steeda Ultralights there are a few things i disliked, primarily how poorly they fit in the front strut upper mount, im sorry i just dislike the way this spring is wound and prefer 100% more how the BMR is wound like an OEM. I also prefer the rake and ride height of the BMR as the Steeda Ultralights seems to lower the rear of the car too much as others have complained. I feel the BMR SP080 rides better in all categories than the Ultralight pairs with the OEM PP shocks. I also feel the front end bite is a bit sharper with the BMR SP080 which might be due to the lower spring rates versus the Ultra Lights. All in all the BMR SP080 are by far the best lowering springs I have tested so far and I do not think anyone can do a better job to improve on this one. Great Job BMR.

Now on to the BMR Handling Springs, we did a quick test on another car with the OEM PP shocks as we were waiting for the Ford Racing Track shocks to arrive. With the OEM PP shocks the car feels good but the ride quality can be a bit jarring at times and I think this is mainly from the lack of rebound on the rear shocks. We only had this in his car for a few days and then switched to the Ford Racing Track Shocks.
With the BMR Handling springs and Ford Racing Track shocks the car felt almost identical to my car when I had the Steeda Ultralights and Ford Racing shocks. I do think the car launched better and more consistent with the BMR Handling springs because of the better ride height stance, as the BMR sits a touch taller and more balanced it reduced rear camber and the car just feels really damn good. I have found that any negative rear camber more than -1.6 per side really makes the IRS react funky.

After my friend drove the BMR Handling Springs and Ford Track shocks for about 1000 miles he simply felt the shock valving could be better so he bought the Koni Yellow. We installed them a few weeks ago and it for sure feels like a much better match to the BMR Handling Spring rate. In my honest opinion I feel this set up is not good for the street or for anyone who drives on bad roads and potholes, its just to damn tight and rough and I could never drive this daily. My friend only uses his car on the weekends and for pleasure so for his needs it suits him just fine. I never liked Koni yellow on any car I have tested or owned from BMW M3, Porsche etc so this is my opinion that their valving for where I drive is just too aggressive and best left for the track or autocross guys. In NY the Koni hurt your back after 45 min of driving around here.


Now back to my personal car, I have had the KW v3 in my car for about 12k miles. When I first tested this kit I was testing a prototype kit which I complained about a few things back then but once the production kits were released those issues were addressed. I believe the Kw does use a progressive spring set and with the adj shocks you can dial out that bounce of the soft coils quite easily. I decided to try something on my own by buying a pair of BMR Handling springs for the rear of the car only and I must say this works even better than I could have thought. I am able to reduce all compression on the rear shock and bump rebound between 7-10 clicks and the back end launches smoother, harder and traction and bite is increased. The ride has gotten a bit stiffer on the road but I do not mind that one bit. I still think the valving of the Kw v3 is a very good set up and the fact that you can opt to change out rear springs and still retain the Kw v3 rear adj shock to me is a home run for anyone looking to fine tune things a bit with dialing out oversteer and launch times. There are many coilover options on the market now from the cheap $1000 kits to the higher end V3 kits or others. I will say the adj features are almost a must for anyone serious about handling or fine tuning their ride quality per specific driving conditions, the non adj versions really feel short changed on 40% of the roads I have driven on and to me that means the investment for the V3 or other higher end adj coilover is well worth the investment. For anyone who has any sort of budget on this suspension buyers guide I will strictly advise the following: DO NOT WASTE TIME AND MONEY ON CHEAP ADJ COILOVERS, THEY SUCK, if you have a budget of $1000 I strongly advise to get yourself some BMR Lowering springs and pair them with the PP shocks or Ford Track shocks get the BMR toe links, cradle lock out and Boomba vertical links and call it a day. I now feel the BMR springs perform better than the single adj coilovers I tested from KW and ST, so the only advantage to using the KW v1 , ST , Eibach, H/R etc is the ride height adjustments but with the progressive springs and fixed shock valving i do not think its the perfect combination for some folks but for some of us that isn’t a top priority. If your more concerned about how low you can go then this thread really doesn’t apply to you guys so I will not offer any suggestions because going to low on this car makes it handle horrible regardless of alignment spec. FYI for anyone looking at the Kw v3 a friend of mine took his off as he traded his car for a nice C7 Z06 which is totally amazing, check the classifieds it’s a smoking deal for anyone serious about performance and value.

I still would like to try out the Ridetech stuff one day soon but I do not think any of my friends are willing to spend the coin for a test, if Ridetech reads this and wants me to carefully evaluate their kit on the track, street and some of the worst NYC roads to check on how they work, handle, ride and overall compare please PM me, I would be willing to try a set on my car for 2 weeks and send back when done.

 

[GTP]

The Ridetech kit looks terrific, but it lowers the car about 2", so it also does not apply to us that want mild to no drop.

 

[MustangCollector]

The Ridetech kit looks terrific, but it lowers the car about 2", so it also does not apply to us that want mild to no drop.

yes too low = too much negative camber that i doubt can be easily corrected most importantly in the rear, Ridetech is known for their airbag stuff and slamming show cars so the thinking with those guys is LOW, not saying they don't make good stuff i just have no feedback on their S550 kits, wish i did but for anyone with normal intentions you can not beat the Kwv3 kit no darn way and i have tried more parts than almost anyone with an S550

 

[BMR Tech]

WOW! Awesome!

Thanks for the review sir, I am very glad to see your thoughts on our springs. We put an insane amount of effort into them, hence the long delay in finalizing the designs...but I truly feel, bias aside, the same as you do about them.

Just an FYI - I have been working on another set for a while now too. Linear, of course. ;)

Thanks again, and I truly appreciate such detailed feedback - as I have stated before. This info is great for the consumer!

Enjoy!

 

[MustangCollector]

WOW! Awesome!

Thanks for the review sir, I am very glad to see your thoughts on our springs. We put an insane amount of effort into them, hence the long delay in finalizing the designs...but I truly feel, bias aside, the same as you do about them.

Just an FYI - I have been working on another set for a while now too. Linear, of course. ;)

Thanks again, and I truly appreciate such detailed feedback - as I have stated before. This info is great for the consumer!

Enjoy!

Yeah i waited a while to get to try your springs and sometimes delays are worth the wait, hands down the BMR Springs are the best ones i have ever tried on this chassis by a good margin, even the ride heights are spot on for my taste, the lowrider crowd not so much but we all have our preferences i guess.

Kelly have you ever tested your SP080 Spring with the Ford Racing Track Shocks? curious as to what feedback you could add to this thread specific with that combination as compared to the OEM PP shocks these springs were original designed for. Also if you can add to this thread what comparisons you have tested and found between the OEM PP dampeners and the Ford performance Track ones that would be great, FYI most people do not understand Shock dyno charts so if possible post some verbal comparo for others to absorb.

 

[BMR Tech]

Yeah i waited a while to get to try your springs and sometimes delays are worth the wait, hands down the BMR Springs are the best ones i have ever tried on this chassis by a good margin, even the ride heights are spot on for my taste, the lowrider crowd not so much but we all have our preferences i guess.

Kelly have you ever tested your SP080 Spring with the Ford Racing Track Shocks? curious as to what feedback you could add to this thread specific with that combination as compared to the OEM PP shocks these springs were original designed for.

Thanks!

As for the SP080 and the FRPP Track Dampers, I have not "tested" them....but, I have driven a car with that combo.

It is very apparent that the rates are a little too soft (overdampened) and the car becomes much too "twitchy" for my tastes.

 

[BmacIL]

Thanks!

As for the SP080 and the FRPP Track Dampers, I have not "tested" them....but, I have driven a car with that combo.

It is very apparent that the rates are a little too soft (overdampened) and the car becomes much too "twitchy" for my tastes.

Handling springs + FRPP track dampers?

 

[MustangCollector]

Thanks!

As for the SP080 and the FRPP Track Dampers, I have not "tested" them....but, I have driven a car with that combo.

It is very apparent that the rates are a little too soft (overdampened) and the car becomes much too "twitchy" for my tastes.

interesting so the PP are a firmer shock it seems, i did feel the rear Ford Racing Track shocks were soft the fronts almost seem the same as OEM PP except longer shock shafts i guess. My other friend has the entire Ford Performance kit on his car (progressive springs) its comfy but the handling is WEAK and the steering feedback and bite up front stinks, granted his car is a non PP car but he changed all the parts anyways over.

 

[MustangCollector]

Handling springs + FRPP track dampers?

these work well but if you have bad driving roads just get the SP080 and call it a day. I think on a road coarse the Koni/BMR Handling would be a great combo with the right tire and wheel set up and proper alignment and driver of course. One has to really consider their use of their car, where they drive and how much seat time they have daily. for my needs comfort is a huge priority and so is handling because my driving is 60% on bad roads and 40% on awesome roads so finding that balance is very difficult but along the way its great to see how each set up i tested works for my lifestyle. If i lived in FL or CA on perfect roads heck anything would feel good i guess but in the real world NE roads its tricky to find that balance. I think i have provided enough solid real world info for others to decide which scenario would work best for their needs.

 

[BMR Tech]

FWIW, I am hoping to make a thread soon about this "bounce" people talk about. ;)

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