Why DIDN'T you get a camaro?

[kevinb671]

I actually did get a Camaro. Traded in my 2022 GT Premium recently on a 2023 2SS 1LE. The Mustang was a great car, and since I'm no brand loyalist, I'll probably be back in one sometime in the next few years. But this is the end of the Camaro, so when a brand new 1LE popped up In a dealer's inventory 2 hours away, I had to jump on it.

 

[shogun32]

so when a brand new 1LE popped up In a dealer's inventory 2 hours away, I had to jump on it.

Price paid?

 

[Headless Horseman]

Price paid?

It's definitely a nice looking car!
I like the fact it's an actual Camaro instead of Mustang dressed as a Camaro for Halloween!

 

[Hack]

I hear you, just know that my base 2SS would kick the crap out of my GT Premium around a road course every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Camaro suspension on all V8 models simply much more heavily geared towards track use than its Mustang counterpart. That said, it’s simply less livable than the 550 on the street. Everything is always a trade off.

I agree with this. I recently bought an LT1 and the suspension is much stiffer than my stock 2017 PP1 Mustang suspension. For it being the lowest cost V8 version of the Camaro it is surprisingly performance-minded. I think it's also stiffer than the GT350, although not by a lot.

The interior also isn't as roomy as the Mustang, which probably helps the car be a little stiffer.

I would instead say GM knows how to do suspension and chassis dynamics. Ford just plain doesn't know how. The Camaro lesser trims are well behaved on streets. Ford thinks they build crown vics so it's rubber mush everywhere and shit for valving and damping. So it doesn't even work on public roads, let alone pushing at a closed circuit. There is no excuse for this aside from Ford engineers suck at their jobs. And yet across the street at FP they apparently have some skills and knowledge. At least it's not total amateur hour.

Completely disagree. GM just had different priorities - performance was emphasized more than making the Camaro comfortable. I think Ford prioritizes comfort higher than I do. However, I see people post on here several times a year that their base Mustang suspension seems too stiff to them. When I bought my PP1 I felt like I was floating along on a cloud in that car it was so soft. Ford made a pretty good compromise where most people think the Mustang is good to drive.

As far as I can tell, Ford is doing a better job of listening to their customers than GM. It's just the more hard core performance minded individuals that prefer a different direction. If Ford made the Mustang suspension the way you and I prefer, it's possible the car would be cancelled due to low sales.

 

[kevinb671]

Price paid?

53k

 

[shogun32]

If Ford made the Mustang suspension the way you and I prefer, it's possible the car would be cancelled due to low sales.

Good suspension is comfortable. If you have a harsh ride, it is by definition utter crap.

I've logged a lot of time on my completely untouched 2022 eco. It soundly fails the comfortable metric, and I can also see why some folks opine the stock is too firm. It's just complete garbage. And wallow city to boot.

That doesn't arise because we want to make it comfortable, it comes from not knowing how to do suspension. At all.

 

[Hack]

Good suspension is comfortable. If you have a harsh ride, it is by definition utter crap.

I've logged a lot of time on my completely untouched 2022 eco. It soundly fails the comfortable metric, and I can also see why some folks opine the stock is too firm. It's just complete garbage. And wallow city to boot.

That doesn't arise because we want to make it comfortable, it comes from not knowing how to do suspension. At all.

My opinion is that the Camaro suspension is somewhat harsh in my LT1. There's a bridge on my way home that I cross every day after work. In the Camaro, it makes a loud bang when I cross it at highway speeds.

The Mustang with Ford's track handling suspension pack passes over no issues no loud noises. It does jolt the car, but not to the extent that you are worried about potential damage to wheels or suspension.

The Camaro isn't utter crap. It's just firm. Quite firm. I do like the fact that the car doesn't wallow around. My stock PP1 felt dangerous to me having 400+ HP and the magnitude of the body motions. But it was SUPER comfortable. Extremely comfortable. Put you to sleep, ride all day no problem kind of suspension tuning. Perfect for Grand Touring.

 

[ZXMustang]

I actually did get a Camaro. Traded in my 2022 GT Premium recently on a 2023 2SS 1LE. The Mustang was a great car, and since I'm no brand loyalist, I'll probably be back in one sometime in the next few years. But this is the end of the Camaro, so when a brand new 1LE popped up In a dealer's inventory 2 hours away, I had to jump on it.

For all around use, my opinion the 2SS 1LE with the A10 trans is by far the best pony car ever made. It has the track chops, and the MRC to make it nice and soft on the road. All of its 460hp is usable and sorry to say, but GMs 10 speed trans tuning is superior. And thats an understatement really. The Camaro 10L80 is like gods gift to 10 speed transmissions. I sure wish Ford was able to get their trans to shift as nice. I would 100% buy another camaro SS1LE. My last one was a 2017 and it was awesome, but it was manual and they only made them in 1SS back then. A 2SS with the 10 speed in that 1LE SS package is really the perfect car.

 

[shogun32]

the Camaro, it makes a loud bang when I cross it at highway speeds.

The Mustang with Ford's track handling suspension pack passes over no issues no loud noises. It does jolt the car,

No the maro while better damped in rebound across the board is under damped/sprung for high speed compression. And probably also has a hard bump stop. Whereas the fp track setup is demonstrably superior.

That's my point FP does have some chops. Ford factory does not.

 

[kevinb671]

For all around use, my opinion the 2SS 1LE with the A10 trans is by far the best pony car ever made. It has the track chops, and the MRC to make it nice and soft on the road. All of its 460hp is usable and sorry to say, but GMs 10 speed trans tuning is superior. And thats an understatement really. The Camaro 10L80 is like gods gift to 10 speed transmissions. I sure wish Ford was able to get their trans to shift as nice. I would 100% buy another camaro SS1LE. My last one was a 2017 and it was awesome, but it was manual and they only made them in 1SS back then. A 2SS with the 10 speed in that 1LE SS package is really the perfect car.

I get that the A10 is objectively quicker. But I'm willing to give up a few tenths in exchange for the joy of being able to row through the gears.

 

[Hack]

No the maro while better damped in rebound across the board is under damped/sprung for high speed compression. And probably also has a hard bump stop. Whereas the fp track setup is demonstrably superior.

That's my point FP does have some chops. Ford factory does not.

FP track handling pack is very similar in stiffness to GT350 (not R) suspension tuning by Ford. Very, very similar. The GT350 suspension is better on track due to magneride, but on the street they feel very nearly the same to me.

 

[kevinb671]

There is no denying the Camaro offers some fantastic performance with certain packages. Choosing Ford over Chevy for myself was a matter of design and engine. The exterior design of the Camaro just does not work for me and I really dislike the interior design. I do not care for the sound of the GM pushrod engine compared to a 4 valve OHC Ford.

I traded in my '22 GT Premium on a '23 2SS 1LE recently. A few thoughts on the pros and cons, at least as I see them:

I prefer the exterior design on the Camaro. It's flashier and more extreme, and it gets a whole lot more attention than my Mustang did. I've constantly got people at gas stations, the grocery store, or even when stopped next to me at a red light remarking about it. Some of that is likely due to the fact that my Mustang was black and my Camaro is red. I realize that by driving a bright-ass red Camaro, I become almost obligated to wear a mullet and a denim jean jacket with a Def Leppard logo embroidered on the back.

The interior of the Mustang was a nicer place to be. It's more of a cabin to the Camaro's cockpit. The design and materials feel more premium than in the Camaro, though the 2SS's Bose system blows away the non-B&O system in my Mustang. The Mustang's digital dash was nicer than the decidedly no-frills display of the Camaro (though I love my HUD).

Since mine's a 2SS, it comes with the blind-spot monitoring and the video rearview mirror, which go a long way toward eliminating the Camaro's very real blind spots.

The Camaro's trunk is large enough for two adult bodies, but the trunk opening would be barely enough to accommodate even a child.

I miss the Mustang's 7,500-RPM redline, but I love the low-end grunt afforded by the Camaro's extra 1.2 liters. And I like the Camaro's engine note better; the pop and crackle of the dual-mode exhaust is sheer joy. This thing sounds like an absolute maniac.

Like I said in another post, I'm no brand loyalist, so there's a very good chance I'll be in a Dark Horse in a few years. But for now, I'm very happy with my Camaro.

 

[GrabberBargeCaptain]

Sometimes i regret not test driving one, but i don't really like the look of em, nor the Dodge cars. Too hot wheels for me. I love the roof angle of the mustang.

 

[Epiphany]

I realize that by driving a bright-ass red Camaro, I become almost obligated to wear a mullet and a denim jean jacket with a Def Leppard logo embroidered on the back.

I lol'd.

 

[Hack]

I traded in my '22 GT Premium on a '23 2SS 1LE recently. A few thoughts on the pros and cons, at least as I see them:

I prefer the exterior design on the Camaro. It's flashier and more extreme, and it gets a whole lot more attention than my Mustang did. I've constantly got people at gas stations, the grocery store, or even when stopped next to me at a red light remarking about it. Some of that is likely due to the fact that my Mustang was black and my Camaro is red. I realize that by driving a bright-ass red Camaro, I become almost obligated to wear a mullet and a denim jean jacket with a Def Leppard logo embroidered on the back.

The interior of the Mustang was a nicer place to be. It's more of a cabin to the Camaro's cockpit. The design and materials feel more premium than in the Camaro, though the 2SS's Bose system blows away the non-B&O system in my Mustang. The Mustang's digital dash was nicer than the decidedly no-frills display of the Camaro (though I love my HUD).

Since mine's a 2SS, it comes with the blind-spot monitoring and the video rearview mirror, which go a long way toward eliminating the Camaro's very real blind spots.

The Camaro's trunk is large enough for two adult bodies, but the trunk opening would be barely enough to accommodate even a child.

I miss the Mustang's 7,500-RPM redline, but I love the low-end grunt afforded by the Camaro's extra 1.2 liters. And I like the Camaro's engine note better; the pop and crackle of the dual-mode exhaust is sheer joy. This thing sounds like an absolute maniac.

Like I said in another post, I'm no brand loyalist, so there's a very good chance I'll be in a Dark Horse in a few years. But for now, I'm very happy with my Camaro.

I agree the dual mode exhaust with the pop/crackle tune sounds great.

And the Bose stereo is better than the stereos in any Ford I've owned.

I think the engine would be a little bland on track, but on the street the torque is nice. You don't get the thrill of high revs like the Coyote gives you, though.