Whipple plus long tubes = ?

[sdiver68]

Please show me on hear where any vendor says adding lth and removing cats does not make much difference in hp on a fi car.I gained 16 whp by just putting cat deletes on my 15 pp na car.I guess it depends on what u call [not much hp].I dont know any vendors claiming that on a fi car.

Well the latest 1 is here on page 1 of this forum, the rest you can search for- https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/stage-2-procharger-kit-with-p-1x-901-rwhp.115916/

And your no cats comment is completely immaterial to the OP and EXACTLY where I said this thread would go.

Finally, no 16 of 700+ is nothing.

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[Tommy V]

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.I said 16 whp on a na setup.Fi would be more,but if u believe the stock headers and cats dont make for a good increase in hp on a hp fi.setup keep your stock.stuff on.Anyone with any experience can.look at the stock headers and tell running 2 primary tubes into one before the merge would cause a restriction and scavaging issues.The catback part of the exhaust on these cars do not make any difference in hp.

 

[The_Mad_Patcher]

Any of our vendors, tuners or builders out there have any info to add? I am really interested in 93 not E85 if there is any experience out there. Was not looking to start any arguments over opinions, just hoping to see some results verified by numbers gotten by actual testing. Thanks to all who replied so far.

 

[Tommy V]

I think.another thing that might be getting confusing is high flow cats to stock.cats.Yes the high flow cats flow much better and is not much difference in hp when running them or no cats at all.But the stock cats compaired to high flow or no.cats at all makes for more hp.

 

[TripleB]

what about stock whipple canned tune with lt's? Is it making more power?

 

[sdiver68]

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.I said 16 whp on a na setup.

This is the FI forum, so I ignored your NA comment other than to point out 16hp is nothing in the FI world...dyno error, pulley size, tune adjustment. Then linked you to a vendor/builder saying the same thing. Finally, FI just has different characteristics from NA so NA experience means little.

Everyone knows how to get 450 whp pump/500 whp e85 from the Gen 3 Coyote with bolts ons, there are articles and videos with the exact formula. Most in the FI forum know how to get more FI power than the stock internals can handle without going to LTH.

And then you post about cats again rehashing what I stated in my post.

Bottom line, Im trying to help OP find the information hes looking for sans actual dyno comparisons. There is a giant thread in here about cats after a member destroyed his engine when a piece of the stock cat got sucked into the engine. In there are plenty of stock cat/perf cat/no cat discussions.

 

[Tommy V]

This is the FI forum, so I ignored your NA comment other than to point out 16hp is nothing in the FI world...dyno error, pulley size, tune adjustment. Then linked you to a vendor/builder saying the same thing. Finally, FI just has different characteristics from NA so NA experience means little.

Everyone knows how to get 450 whp pump/500 whp e85 from the Gen 3 Coyote with bolts ons, there are articles and videos with the exact formula. Most in the FI forum know how to get more FI power than the stock internals can handle without going to LTH.

And then you post about cats again rehashing what I stated in my post.

Bottom line, Im trying to help OP find the information hes looking for sans actual dyno comparisons. There is a giant thread in here about cats after a member destroyed his engine when a piece of the stock cat got sucked into the engine. In there are plenty of stock cat/perf cat/no cat discussions.

I have a gen 2 with d1sc running mid 9's in the quarter at 143 mph,so i know what it takes to get a fi car to run..There are many things in the tune that u have no clue about that would effect a HIGH hp fi car running stock.cats and headers.Exhaust temps and cylinder backpressure are just a few.And far as u keeping going on about how me comparing stock cats to high flow that is just what the op is asking.I dont need dyno graphs to make my point.I have hundreds of data logs to look at.

 

[sdiver68]

I have a gen 2 with d1sc running mid 9's in the quarter at 143 mph,so i know what it takes to get a fi car to run..There are many things in the tune that u have no clue about that would effect a HIGH hp fi car running stock.cats and headers.Exhaust temps and cylinder backpressure are just a few.And far as u keeping going on about how me comparing stock cats to high flow that is just what the op is asking.I dont need dyno graphs to make my point.I have hundreds of data logs to look at.

Making assumptions again? My personally designed and tuned engines have won National Road Racing Championships for myself and others. But yes Im still learning about Mustang FI. So exactly which part of engine tuning do I have no clue about? BTW, I was running 9s, 148 in 2001 so congrats on your recent achievements.

Can we get away from the measuring contest?

Im under the assumption that a person asking about LTH are not experienced persons doing a max build.

 

[Tommy V]

Well u figure with all these goals u achieved in road racing u would not that if u were going to run stock cats on a fi car that cot would need to be active which would by itself would rob horsepower just to keep the stock cats from getting destroyed.Thats loss hp without even taking into consideration of the restriction of the stock cats.Stock cats are just not designed to take that much heat and their are multiple guys on here that have egt sensors only to see really high egt's on their car.Another example is a car running 15 psi of boost with stock headers and cats and make 700 rwhp then put lth and remove or use high flow cats and the boost will drop to 13 psi,no other changes but exhaust and make more power with less boost.I have seen it many times on this platform.For the op he can research and im sure he will find the same results.

 

[Tommy V]

To the op asking the queztions,u asked because u want to see if the hp from headers and highflow cats is worth the price.U can go to the fast list and look at track times which is alot better example of rwhp then dyno numbers and make a desicion for youself.Everyone list their mods only thing u need to keep in mind is compare in DA that is close to the same.This leaves out opnions and gives u hard data on what you are looking for.

 

[Platinum_5.0]

Here is a comparison of my car. The graph shows when I had the stage 2 Whipple, 94 pump and 3.75 pulley. Stock headers and cats. Second line is after LTH and 3.6 pulley. I know the pulley is added to the equation but maybe it can give you an idea of what longtubes did for me. Both dynos were on the same dyno, dynojet and 94 pump. NO changes were made to the tune.

 

[Tommy V]

Great example,the pulley drop would equate to about 25 to 30 rwhp.With the tune being the same tbe only otber thing that would affect this comparison is the outside temps.If they were close to the same it would be a fair comparison.

 

[sdiver68]

Here is a comparison of my car. The graph shows when I had the stage 2 Whipple, 94 pump and 3.75 pulley. Stock headers and cats. Second line is after LTH and 3.6 pulley. I know the pulley is added to the equation but maybe it can give you an idea of what longtubes did for me. Both dynos were on the same dyno, dynojet and 94 pump. NO changes were made to the tune.

Is this with or without cats after LTH install?

 

[engineermike]

August vs November. Temp seems to affect these more than the correction factors indicate.

 

[olaosunt]

Here is a comparison of my car. The graph shows when I had the stage 2 Whipple, 94 pump and 3.75 pulley. Stock headers and cats. Second line is after LTH and 3.6 pulley. I know the pulley is added to the equation but maybe it can give you an idea of what longtubes did for me. Both dynos were on the same dyno, dynojet and 94 pump. NO changes were made to the tune.

Wow!
So if pulley change picked up 30 whp,the remaining 66 whp gain would be from LTH and weather ?
Got me thinking now about at least deleting my cats/LTH . If it will pick up another 30-40 whp I may be at about 900 whp on race gas/3.5 pulley

I may be getting old but I had sworn I would never do headers again (after having them on every previous blower car ) . I am not really a fan of the “tinny rasp “ and loud .
I have them on my KB car and it took a lot of adding resonators /swapping axle backs to sound at least decent .
Stock headers/ cats on 18 and GT 350 sound so good I would hate to mess things up .

I just finished some more testing of different fuels on my 18 whipple car and final result are interesting .
Car ended up making the most power with a can of boostane addded to 5 gallons of 93 (estimated octane 104) with “octanium tune “
Evem more than straight 104 race gas (both Ms109/260 GTP)/tune with slightly less timing .

Car did not like C16 gas /tune(I assume had more timing but not looked at the logs)
Same tune made more by adding boostane to MS109 to make 114 octane but still less than 93 plus boostane )

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