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Wheel spacers installed with impact wrench

Discussion in 'Wheels & Tires' started by Baso, Apr 7, 2019.

  1. Sheenapple

    Sheenapple Well-Known Member

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    They’re the type you torque to 150 ft/lbs. I gave you the link to where I bought them, and the type of car I drive.
     
  2. bjstang

    bjstang Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, each has a different skill set and we learn from each other. That's what car enthusiasts have in common (at least most of us) sharing the knowledge, information, and helping each other out.

    With no pics it's just another story. I asked a direct question; do you have pics? Manufacturers recommend different torque specs on multiple types of spacers.

    That's not a pic of my spacer and I didn't break it. I use the proper torque. It does belong to a fellow forum member.
     
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  3. 505bbjason

    505bbjason Active Member

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    I don’t have a dog in this fight of spacers vs no spacers, but I would like to throw in that torque specs are typically a function of the fastener diameter, thread pitch, lubed vs dry, and fastener grade. This is to ensure that the fastener is preloaded adequately. In some applications (like a connecting rod bolt) fastener stretch is actually measured rather than a torque value. Most torque tables will specify preloading the fastener to ~75% of it’s proof strength. There is some science behind where these torque values come from, but they are not some super secret proprietary thing that only Ford understands.

    I’m going to guess the studs/bolts for our application are class 10.9 or 12.9. Generically, 125 should be about right for a 10.9 fastener and 150 for a 12.9 with a light coating of oil as lubricant.
     
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  4. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Some of people here lack understanding of fundamental physics (especially the one that wrote torque to whatever you like). In any bolted joint, the only important value is clamp achieved by the joint (simplifying - force with which things are held together). Since it isn't easily measurable in shop conditions, everyone uses torque instead that should be ideally specified using torque-tension tables / tests 505bbjason mentioned above.

    150 ft/lbs (not lbs) is the torque that Ford came up with for that fastener (stud) to achieve the clamp they think is sufficient to hold wheel the the hub safely in all conditions. This really is that simple and is really fairly fundamental physics. A spacer may not be able to handle crush load generated by 150 ft/lbs torque but that only means it is crap and it is poorly designed.

    Nuts have very little to do here, most shop mechanics can easily tighten the lugs accurately with an impact wrench.
     
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  5. bjstang

    bjstang Well-Known Member

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    I think that rock was thrown at me, caught it. :) Let me explain, it was sarcasm. To each his own, eh.

    Why even use a torque wrench or follow specs, just use the impact and guess at everything, each his own again.

    Lot's of words posted, post up a how-to video and share your special skills. :wink:
     
  6. OP
    OP
    Baso

    Baso Well-Known Member

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    Thank you everyone who posted here. I see there's a lot of debate going on. Anyways I'm closing in on those first 100 miles so I'm going to look around my area more for a shop with a torque wrench available. I've concluded from the internet that 120lb is the most common torque spec for those spacers (I got the Coyote accessories ones from American Muscle btw) so I might go with this spec, seeing as it falls between 90 and 150. Any feedback would be appreciated.
     
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  7. Voo Doo

    Voo Doo Well-Known Member

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    Yep... no pic or it never happened!! That’s the unwritten rule!! Slamming Eibach is insane!! My buddy has a set... zero issues and it looks awesome!! ....he has deep pockets but chooses what mods he wants! He loves his PP wheels and now the stance is just perfect for him!! Different strokes!! Let’s just move on !!
     
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  8. bjstang

    bjstang Well-Known Member

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    Good choice. My wife still has one set of the 25MM Coyote brand spacers on her car, (rear wheels).

    Split the difference and torqued the spacers to 115 ft.lbs and the wheels to the proper spec of 148. No issues.

    https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/double-race-red-journal.74739/page-3#post-1915726

    IMG_0822 R.JPG
     
  9. ahl395

    ahl395 Well-Known Member

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    90% of shops use impact guns on wheels, how many times do you hear about wheels flying off? Not very often... so you're probably fine.

    That being said, I use a torque wrench every time, because you never know. A dead battery/low air pressure and they may not be as tight as the tech thought they were.
     
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  10. Wile-E Coyote

    Wile-E Coyote Active Member

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    Can you stop typing please? you are misleading people into a dangerous situation that you have no fucking clue about. Torque specs are ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FOOT POUNDS, BUY SPACERS THAT CAN HANDLE ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FOOT POUNDS. OR risk your wheels coming off and dying, or crashing into a crowd of people, or your FAMILY.

    "IMPACT" guns are a gun thats it, if you are worried about your chrome lug nuts coating then we can use Teflon coated sockets or you know just the right sized socket that doesn't give the nut any play.


    ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY FOOT POUNDS!!!
     
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  11. VinnAY

    VinnAY Well-Known Member

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    It's very easy to get very close to 150 with an impact, the one I use at home will hit very close to that, finish it with a torque wrench. Saying an impact is wrong, isn't quite true, used correctly, there's nothing wrong with that at all.
     
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  12. bjstang

    bjstang Well-Known Member

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    145 lbs to 155 lbs, plus or minus five, eh. Agreed, not that hard to do.

    No can-do Wile, gives me something to do while watching paint dry. Guessing things are slow for you at the tire shop today.

    Yelling doesn't make your statements correct. There are young ones that have hopes of owning a car and read this forum. The language you revert to sounds like every other part time flat fixer at the tire shop.

    I can be persuaded to agree with the 150lbs. Post a pic of the spacer and the torque specs for the last set you installed.

    It may be something I can pass along to others. Although, I’m happy with the set I have.
     
  13. Wile-E Coyote

    Wile-E Coyote Active Member

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    I sold my shops 2 years ago and retired at age 32, what in the fuck does a picture of a spacer do? have you not heard of this thing called the fucking internet?

    Secondly, CAPSLOCK is not yelling, its simply capitol letters which are used to emphasize specific phrases or words. Like not KILLING your FAMILY by being STUPID and arguing with professionals and several people who have told you EXACTLY why you're wrong.

    I will spell it out one more time for you and i really want you to read the words that im typing. I dont want you to try and come back with a witty retort about anything in this post before this *

    Ok - Your torque spec on the studs of your hub is determined by how much clamping pressure is required to hold ANY mating surfaces together at speed and torque levels that the car can exert. How much that torque rating is is determined also by the width of the studs and pitch of the thread(how far away the threads are from eachother, like coarse or fine threads. Coarse threads require MORE torque to be tightened which are the style of threads that we use.) using those inputs and into a calculation that i cannot and dont really care about, ford engineers came up with 150ft lbs of torque. Now im going to tell you something you may not know. Your wheel is not held onto the hub via the studs in a rotational manner, the studs do not stop the wheel from rotating. It is 100% the job of the clamping forces from the pressure that the nuts put on the wheel and the friction between the hub and the wheels surface.

    If you put a spacer on your vehicle that only torques to 90 or 110lbs you are putting significantly less clamping strength and friction between the hub and the spacer, you need to think of the spacer as an extension of the WHEEL, not an extension of the hub. ANY and ALL specs regarding wheel torque are applied to the spacers as they must have the SAME clamping and friction as the wheel did.

    Now as i said, if your spacer cannot handle 150 pounds of torque then you need a different spacer. Im not saying not to use a spacer im just telling you to use the right ones. MOST 6061 or 7075 billit aluminum spacers should be able to handle 150lbs torque, MOST spacers include instructions that specifically say to torque them to the vehicles specs. MOST spacers should be fine but IF your spacer crushes itself under 150lbs you know you have a shitty spacer, likely made from low grade or faulty materials and likely made in china and rebranded.
     
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  14. 505bbjason

    505bbjason Active Member

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    From a preload perspective, a fine thread bolt should be torqued more. It’s minor diameter is larger than a coarse thread bolt, so it’s strength in tension will be higher. The problem though, is the risk of pulling the threads out in softer materials.

    As to torque values for spacer/hub, depending on spacer thickness, the ford suggested lug nut torque may not be optimum. That being said, it’s likely not that far off, and should be well within any engineered safety factor.

    For the spacer to wheel joint, again the ford suggested lug nut value is likely not optimized, as the fastener interface is not as originally designed.
     
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  15. Wile-E Coyote

    Wile-E Coyote Active Member

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    Fine threaded bolts have more surface area and thus require less torque to hold the same amount of mass but as you said they run the risk of pulling the threads out.

    Ford suggested is ford engineer approved. Id like to see your engineering certificate before id listen to any of your rantings about ford suggested torque values being incorrect just to serve your agenda.
     
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