Water meth boost raise levels

[Veteran]

Absolutely not.

So how much do you feel would be a figure ? 2 or 3 psi ?

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[WildHorse]

So how much do you feel would be a figure ? 2 or 3 psi ?

Maybe. You biggest gains will be if it keeps adding timing.

 

[raptor17GT]

you'll need to run / tune it on the dyno and see the results but defo mount the WI injector as far away from the inlet manifold as you can otherwise you will not get the best benefit from it. The other advantage of WI / meth injection is the effective cleaning of the combustion chamber, taking away possible hotspots and build up that would cause detonation. If i ever go down the forced induction path with mine then it's something i'd fit for sure.

 

[Chris Barnes]

There are a lot of threads on this topic in this forum. With a well thought out system it's not uncommon to see results close to that of guys using E85. On my old setup I never raised boost pressure, but instead took advantage of increased timing. I always used 50/50 mix and had great results on my Gen III Procharger combo without issue. The key to all of this as stated earlier is to have a conversation with your tuner and make sure you log everything to ensure a margin of safety. Look up posts on the topic by "ahl95". I basically took every bit of advise from him and never had an issue.

 

[Angrey]

The answer is, it depends on what your tuner is comfortable with.

Most reputable tuners don't like adding points of failure. If something goes wrong, anything with your water/meth injection, it's most likely going to be very bad for the motor, likely catastrophic.

I'm curious as to why you're pursuing water/meth instead of better fuel.

Also, many very high hp motor setups use a shot of nitrous for similar outcomes, it not only adds power, but it helps to cool intake charge. I'm thinking a decent nitrous setup is more reliable than the electric pumps associated with a typical methanol setup (admittedly both have potential failure aspects).

In the end, anything can fail, but if you're doing it the way/reason you're doing it (to ride the ragged edge) then a foul up is probably going to smoke your motor.

 

[Jackson1320]

What fuel were you using ?

California 91 octane with water/meth

 

[Jackson1320]

you'll need to run / tune it on the dyno and see the results but defo mount the WI injector as far away from the inlet manifold as you can otherwise you will not get the best benefit from it. The other advantage of WI / meth injection is the effective cleaning of the combustion chamber, taking away possible hotspots and build up that would cause detonation. If i ever go down the forced induction path with mine then it's something i'd fit for sure.

You put the nozzle as far away from the throttle body if you want to take advantage of the cooling effect. If you want to use it for octane then you have to have close enough that it doesn’t evaporate before it reaches the combustion chamber.

 

[Veteran]

The answer is, it depends on what your tuner is comfortable with.

Most reputable tuners don't like adding points of failure. If something goes wrong, anything with your water/meth injection, it's most likely going to be very bad for the motor, likely catastrophic.

I'm curious as to why you're pursuing water/meth instead of better fuel.

Also, many very high hp motor setups use a shot of nitrous for similar outcomes, it not only adds power, but it helps to cool intake charge. I'm thinking a decent nitrous setup is more reliable than the electric pumps associated with a typical methanol setup (admittedly both have potential failure aspects).

In the end, anything can fail, but if you're doing it the way/reason you're doing it (to ride the ragged edge) then a foul up is probably going to smoke your motor.

Where I’m at 91 is it. A W/M system is a interesting option without selling a kidney. Install and running costs are very low.
But yes , if it fails, Kaboom. And that is a worry.

 

[Veteran]

Put 2 nozzles ?

You put the nozzle as far away from the throttle body if you want to take advantage of the cooling effect. If you want to use it for octane then you have to have close enough that it doesn’t evaporate before it reaches the combustion chamber.

 

[Angrey]

Put 2 nozzles ?

I think it's more with running the tank dry and if the pump fails.

Imagine it like this, if the fuel system takes a dump, it's no bueno. Now imagine having a second fuel system to content with (with components that aren't as widely battle tested). You've more than doubled your risk of engine nuke for marginal gains/increases.

 

[Jackson1320]

Where I’m at 91 is it. A W/M system is a interesting option without selling a kidney. Install and running costs are very low.
But yes , if it fails, Kaboom. And that is a worry.

This is not exactly true. There are safety devices that can be installed to protect your engine. Also you can run two pumps so if one fails you are good because you know you still have one running

Put 2 nozzles ?

Yes this is the best way to use both the cooling and the octane. It works perfect

I think it's more with running the tank dry and if the pump fails.

Imagine it like this, if the fuel system takes a dump, it's no bueno. Now imagine having a second fuel system to content with (with components that aren't as widely battle tested). You've more than doubled your risk of engine nuke for marginal gains/increases.

It’s not two separate systems. One system with two nozzles. This is not a problem for the system. The pump can easily handle two or more nozzles. And like I said if you run a redundant pump then you have almost 0 chance of failure

 

[illtal]

Thanks for all the replies, but there Is still no definitive answer to how much extra boost a water meth will allow Before detonation kicks in .
So let’s say 91 Octane allows 7psi safely. That’s at best 570 whp.
not bad at all , but let’s be honest 700/750 would be a lot better and still manageable by the drivetrain.
To get to say 700 whp you’d need 12/13 psi boost.
All above based on a centri.
So will the water meth curb detonation for a extra 6psi above the 7psi 91Oct limit ?

There are other conditions like IAT, actual fuel quality, tuning, w/m ratio, etc. there is no difinitive answer on HOW much because well "it depends"

 

[illtal]

I also run WMI with my EB2650 Setup. I get about 6-8 more degrees of timing with than without. That's with GOOD 93. I basically was told to either pulley back up or always run the WMI on 93 since it was edgy already on good fuel.

I don't get any knock with good 93, just that in some spots I get no timing advance, which means the engine will detonate with bad 93 or less than 93. So i run it as a way to ensure that my engine will never knock as is on any pump 93.

I'm currently in Italy, you should be able to get 100 RON which is like 95 octane. The 95RON is like 91 Octane so you are correct. If you are wanting a margin with WMI this is probably ok. if you want more boost, it's possible to do this with a WMI setup as, but In this case it would absolutely function like a band-aid.
One empty tank and a hard pull and it's boom boom time.

 

[Veteran]

I also run WMI with my EB2650 Setup. I get about 6-8 more degrees of timing with than without. That's with GOOD 93. I basically was told to either pulley back up or always run the WMI on 93 since it was edgy already on good fuel.

I'm currently in Italy, you should be able to get 100 RON which is like 95 octane. The 95RON is like 91 Octane so you are correct. If you are wanting a margin WMI, if you want more boost. it's possible to do this with a WMI setup. In this case it would absolutely function like a band-aid.
One empty tank and a hard pull and it's boom boom time.

I see some meth kits have failsafes. I could plumb a bypass, that the moment the meth signals level, it stays open and I have a N/A car ?

 

[illtal]

I see some meth kits have failsafes. I could plumb a bypass, that the moment the meth signals level, it stays open and I have a N/A car ?

I suppose anything is possible given enough time and money. However I haven't seen a double fail-safe like this ran on a factory ECU because there are no outputs for somthing like this.
If you're running a super charger with no boost car is going to be well slower than the stock car with no blower. The tune will give you poor driveability issues as well with the lower lambda and reduced spark timing.
Smart boost makes an electronic valve but I have never heard of anyone using it even though it looks pretty impressive. For me it's too much wiring and rolling the dice with my ride for a bit more power.
If you can't get higher octane fuel, well don't expect a tuner to stick his/her neck out for you.
Your tuner will tell you what they are comfortable with you running and how much with your set up

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