Water/Meth Into TVS Blower

[Replicator]

Hey guys,

I've been doing some research and can't seem to come up with a best path forward for my situation. I recently finished installing a Roush Phase 2 blower system on my 19 GT. I also have an old stage 3 dual nozzle Snow Performance kit laying around from my SHO days. I want to install this kit on my setup to help control temps as well as give a slight octane boost but can't determine the best point of injection. I have a couple cases of "Boost Juice" left over I want to burn through as well. From doing some research I've found a few options but want some opionions before just drilling and tapping holes.
1. Dual Nozzle preinjection. Doing this method I've read anything from using 100% methanol only to using 100% water only with both claiming the other is bad for the blower. I was thinking doing this but diluting to 25% meth 75% water.
2. One nozzle pre one nozzle post. From what I understand this would be hard to get all cylinders evenly covered. Would run 50/50
3. Dual post injection. Best for cooling charge and getting even distribution. No blower cooling. Would run 50/50.

Let me know what you guys think.

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[brianbr]

I run a 14 gph nozzle 4-5 inches before the throttle blade on my Edelbrock 2650. I've found that 60%meth by weight gives me the best results. I would not run 100% meth, it's too volatile to keep in a street car.

 

[Replicator]

I run a 14 gph nozzle 4-5 inches before the throttle blade on my Edelbrock 2650. I've found that 60%meth by weight gives me the best results. I would not run 100% meth, it's too volatile to keep in a street car.

Thank you. This is information I'm looking for. I'm assuming you had to run a slightly leaner tune due to the meth addition?

 

[brianbr]

No, the tune still commands the same wot lambda. The upstream o2 sensors will compensate for the additional fuel by pulling it out.

 

[Chris Barnes]

This! Exactly what brianbr said. Different supercharger, but I did the identical thing on my 2018 procharged GT. Fueling was left alone and let the wide band O2's correct, however the additional octane and cooling allowed more timing. Unless you go overboard, meth injection is a fantastic option on these modern cars with on-board wideband O2 sensors. I'm currently working on a similar setup on my 2021 GT500 with the factory supercharger much like you are considering.

 

[illtal]

Thank you. This is information I'm looking for. I'm assuming you had to run a slightly leaner tune due to the meth addition?

I run a 25 GPH nozzle on a Edelbrock 2650 like @brianbr. Like he I also run roughly a 60% meth water by VOLUME. I also use some lubricant in the mix to lengthen pump life.

Your backwards on the tune you'd actually want to run a richer lamba on 93 because when you add another fuel it thinks it's more 93 not meth, so it's trims you back (lean). I'll post my dyno sheet but you can see how when it comes on i go from 11:1~ AFR to around 12:1~

But since you're removing heat from the combustion chamber with the water, and giving it a huge boost in octane it should be fine. My nozzle is where the elbow about 6 inches away from the TB.

There are pros and cons to having it closer or further away. I would prefer it behind the TB on a positive displacement SC, so that you can get more fluid on the case and keep it (the SC) cooler. It doesn't matter as much because the airflow on PDs are the same at the inlet and any point along the intake. it can only travel as fast as the SC can move the air.

The amount of water or meth inside the SC will not matter, it gets hot, it will evaporate before any damage can be done due to the corrosive nature of Meth.

I would not run 100% methanol, you will lose out on a lot of the cylinder cooling of the water. also meth can be flashed off as low as 80F (there is an universally accepted range here not sure why). Also, if you have a leak, Methanol burns CLEAR. You won't be able to the see the flame.

 

[Cory S]

No, the tune still commands the same wot lambda. The upstream o2 sensors will compensate for the additional fuel by pulling it out.

STFT’s pull the dwell from injectors based on the O2’s lambda reading. But yep. Closed loop fueling is such a beneficial ability these days.

 

[Cory S]

I run a 25 GPH nozzle on a Edelbrock 2650 like @brianbr. Like he I also run roughly a 60% meth water by VOLUME. I also use some lubricant in the mix to lengthen pump life.

Your backwards on the tune you'd actually want to run a richer lamba

The O2’s still read on the lambda scale. Having methanol in there doesn’t change how lambda is read. Lambda is lambda. As long as targeted/commanded lambda is let’s say .80, STFT’s will always adjust to meet that value.

 

[illtal]

The O2’s still read on the lambda scale. Having methanol in there doesn’t change how lambda is read. Lambda is lambda. As long as targeted/commanded lambda is let’s say .80, STFT’s will always adjust to meet that value.

This is how it was explained to me...

It is true, that the pcm will still try to meet it's target, but the volume of 93 (more dense fuel) is always going to get reduced. It will try to reach .8 lambda on a 14.1 stoichiometry for pump 93.

The PCM does not know that you are adding a lower stoich (6.85?) fuel in there. This is part of the reason you will see the fuel trim and level to .8 but in a sniffer like on a Dyno you will see AFR lean out.

 

[Jackson1320]

This is how it was explained to me...

It is true, that the pcm will still try to meet it's target, but the volume of 93 (more dense fuel) is always going to get reduced. It will try to reach .8 lambda on a 14.1 stoichiometry for pump 93.

The PCM does not know that you are adding a lower stoich (6.85?) fuel in there. This is part of the reason you will see the fuel trim and level to .8 but in a sniffer like on a Dyno you will see AFR lean out.

your wide bands are your sniffers

 

[illtal]

your wide bands are your sniffers

yesh, but this is the reason why they tell you not to use meth as a fuel on this car.
you will start to lean if you get too much in there.

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