V8 potential problems coming? [ADMIN WARNING: *** NO POLITICS ***]

[KingKona]

But they are selling out of every single one they make, you can argue with me and insult me all you want. But you need a dose of reality, the majority of people don’t want gasoline cars for the future, we are a minority in this opinion.

This forum is an echo chamber that allows people with this opinion to believe that there is actually a reality where EV's will fail. They wont, I can hardly throw a rock without hitting one.

Selling out of every single one they make doesn't mean anything when they're made in very small numbers. What matters is the % of new registrations Teslas represent, and those numbers are tiny.

In 2021 there were 15,079,182 vehicles sold in the US. Of those, about 300,000 were Teslas. That means that Teslas were 1.9894978388085% of the total vehicle sales in the US in 2021.

The numbers don't lie; Teslas make up a tiny percentage of new car sales, and an even tinier percentage of the vehicles registered for the road.

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[Mach VII]

I didn't drink the man made climate change kool-aid. In Spain they found Roman ruins that have been under water for 1000 years. So what is correct? Should it be dry or wet there? The climate changes, we adapt.

Those ruins were underwater because they built a dam in 1949 lol - Roman Ruins

My personal belief is that man-made climate change is real, ask anyone that lives in the Arctic, Greenland, any island nation that is located close to sea level.... notice that leaders that say it is fake have deep ties to businesses/lobiests that are going to gleefully exploit the now ice and snow free land that the rapidly rising temperatures are exposing - NPR

I believe that may be true in Boston. Here in the south they are few and far between.

You're probably right, I live in rural MA and there are plenty of EV's and charging stations around here too. Grid here is constantly upgraded and well maintained by old poles being replaced, trees trimmed along its path... we even have two paths for the main feed in the area so that if one goes down the other can quickly be brought online to reduce outage time.

I have solar on my house, it is more than enough to run lights, central air, heat pump for all but coldest days, well, clothes dryer etc. and reserve capacity for eventual electric car. I will also eventually add battery backup, it is currently expensive but if you are willing to let the electric company have access to it they will pay you to supply back to the grid on high demand days. There are limits on days per month and hours per day but in general one would expect payback on the batteries in 10 years.

Lot of misconceptions being said here, like the grid being overloaded if everyone has an EV and charging at the same time during the evening. First off, there's no way everyone will be synced up like that. Second, the vast majority will not require any charging most nights. Third, the CONUS has 4 time zones so the effective time is spread out. Here's a decent article that goes over that - Forbes.com

Let's say you travel on average 50 mile/day for work/errands M-F and your EV has a 220 mile real range, you would have to charge every 4th night and that is only if you didn't 'top off' somewhere during the day. Level 2 charger (220 Vac) draws about 32 amps at full capacity and can currently add about 25 miles of capacity/hour. However, as the battery reaches about 80% capacity the amps drawn drops significantly. Best practice currently is to let charge drop to around 10% and fill to around 80%. If we go by the example I gave above that would mean dropping to about 25 miles of range and charging to 175 miles range or 150 miles replenished, would take 6 hours consuming 42 KwH. For me, electricity is about $0.25 per KwH so total $10.50. if gas is $3/gallon then this is comparable to 43 mpg from a cost perspective, 57 mpg if gas is at $4. The electric vehicle doesn't use capacity when stopped and regenerates capacity when braking so gets rated at 88 MPGe. As stated, recycling EV battery packs is currently expensive but that will decrease a lot once the scale is there and technology improves. They don't just toss them in a scrap pile, they test and replace bad cells then repurpose as storage for charging stations for example. Faulty cells are smelted down to raw materials and used to build new cells. Smelting is still done with coal or natural gas but takes far less of them than processing from raw materials.

 

[KeyLime]

.

In 2021 there were 15,079,182 vehicles sold in the US. Of those, about 300,000 were Teslas. That means that Teslas were 1.9894978388085% of the total vehicle sales in the US in 2021.

They’ve sold that many in the first 2 quarters this year. Tesla sales are growing at a rapid rate.
If they come up with a pickup that can compete with F150 sales will skyrocket. Sure. Commercial operators and the heavy towing crowd won’t be impressed, but most pickup sales are not in that segment.

 

[KingKona]

They’ve sold that many in the first 2 quarters this year. Tesla sales are growing at a rapid rate.
If they come up with a pickup that can compete with F150 sales will skyrocket. Sure. Commercial operators and the heavy towing crowd won’t be impressed, but most pickup sales are not in that segment.

So they may get to 3.8% of total sales?

Fantastic.

 

[Ogopogo]

From https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39998609/electric-car-sales-usa/ 4.6% of new registrations in the USA were electric in early 2022. North America EV sales trail Europe and China significantly https://www.ev-volumes.com/ China and Europe will likely always be ahead of the USA and it may only be a matter of time before India EV sales start to take off as well.

The EV train has already left the station. From now on, it is only a matter of what the rate of change may be, and in what category of EV. I am guessing commercial fleets in particular will start to surge by 2025 when more manufacturing capacity ramps up and new battery factories begin operation. Almost every corporation in the last mile delivery business, never mind municipal fleets, garbage disposal and school buses will be replacing almost all of their ICEs in their fleets with EVs as fleet rotations/replacements take place.

 

[K4fxd]

Best practice currently is to let charge drop to around 10% and fill to around 80%. If we go by the example I gave above that would mean dropping to about 25 miles of range and charging to 175 miles range or 150 miles replenished, would take 6 hours consuming 42 KwH.

That may work if you live in a city but many people are more than 25 miles to a hospital.

You make it sound all rosy, but it takes you 1 hour to add 25 miles of charge whereas I can pour 5 gallons from a gas can in about 3 minuets and get 100 miles of extra range.

Batteries are the problem.

California cannot supply enough electricity to cover current demand, my son who lives in Indiana got a letter from his power company that said there would be rolling blackouts this summer.

The only thing we can get permits for are solar and wind. Try to get a permit to build a natural gas power plant. Takes about 3 acres of land vs the 200 needed for solar, and the solar will not produce as much as the gas plant. Waste of land.

It is not ready for prime time.

"according to scientists, Greenland was actually quite green more than 2.5 million years ago."
https://visitgreenland.com/articles/10-facts-nellie-huang/

 

[Mach VII]

That may work if you live in a city but many people are more than 25 miles to a hospital.

You make it sound all rosy, but it takes you 1 hour to add 25 miles of charge whereas I can pour 5 gallons from a gas can in about 3 minuets and get 100 miles of extra range.

Batteries are the problem.

California cannot supply enough electricity to cover current demand, my son who lives in Indiana got a letter from his power company that said there would be rolling blackouts this summer.

The only thing we can get permits for are solar and wind. Try to get a permit to build a natural gas power plant. Takes about 3 acres of land vs the 200 needed for solar, and the solar will not produce as much as the gas plant. Waste of land.

It is not ready for prime time.

"according to scientists, Greenland was actually quite green more than 2.5 million years ago."
https://visitgreenland.com/articles/10-facts-nellie-huang/

If you truly need a hospital shouldn't you be calling an ambulance? BTW I live in a town of 7000 people and we are the 'hub' of the area.... also have a hospital in town and old time country stores in the hill towns around us, both of which are rarity these days.

I don't think what I wrote was rosy at all, it was facts plain and simple. I agree that it is way more convenient to use gas/diesel but change of habits can counter a bit of that. For example, can you 'fill' your tank while you sleep or work or shop? Slap the thing on a charger when it is convenient. 24 hour gas isn't always available too.

I agree, batteries are the problem, reason why I didn't add them to my system... yet. I look at this aspect like the change from CRT televisions to flat panel monitors, in the beginning they were insanely expensive and produced a crappy picture. As time went on the started to look better and the price started to come down until the tech and manufacturing caught up and suddenly that old dinosaur looked old and not worth putting money into.

We have solar fields and quite a few windmills. 30% of the county energy comes from them. We also have some water systems that are from the past. The solar fields in many cases replaced old textile and printing factories from the 19th century so in this case the solar panels are far more attractive than run down buildings.

Only the southern highlands of Greenland were actually green 2.5 million years ago before the ice age capped it with 2 miles of ice and snow. 2.5 million years.... we are tearing it down in about a century. That is the issue.

 

[KeyLime]

So they may get to 3.8% of total sales?

Fantastic.

Yep. Getting close to Ford’s 12.6%.

 

[K4fxd]

2.5 million years.... we are tearing it down in about a century. That is the issue.

If you look around you can find charts that show 3 distinct warming and cooling periods. We happen to be in a warming period. If the earth was going to warm 5 degrees and because of us it warms 6 or 7, I don't see that as catastrophic. It will naturally cool off again.

 

[Mach VII]

If you look around you can find charts that show 3 distinct warming and cooling periods. We happen to be in a warming period. If the earth was going to warm 5 degrees and because of us it warms 6 or 7, I don't see that as catastrophic. It will naturally cool off again.

Let's talk cars maybe we can find something to disagree on

 

[young at heart]

Let's talk cars maybe we can find something to disagree on

I sure wish…

 

[Mspider]

More States jumping in. Sounds like mandates to me.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/several-states-california-lead-banning-153529990.html

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/california-declares-grid-emergency-warning-222116252.html

Now this is just bad timing lol

 

[boB]

Thanks admin! These posts can degenerate badly. Now, back to V8 problems...

First , the damning numbers:

2021 14.9 M light vehicles sold in us

2021 Mustang sales 65,590

2021 Ford total sales 1.9 M


We are a niche within a niche, Mustang sales are less than 0.5% of the US total, this forum is probably less than 1% of Mustang owners. Yes, our voices (and our $$$) count but they probably do not count for much with Ford corporate. If all the new Mustangs represented on this forum were what Ford sold in a year they would not even *think* of continuing the line.

Like when the CEO of Chrysler was asked how much the Viper contributed to their bottom line he replied "We have more minivans fall off of trains than we sell Vipers.".

Back to the original title of this thread: our V8. Without the F-150 the numbers don't add up to making it profitable to build the engine. The F-150 Coyote is diverging from the Mustang version and the V6 Ecoboost works better for a truck anyway. Less and less Coyotes means higher prices. I will pay the gas guzzler tax and the too high option price for a V8 but many buyers won't, the numbers just don't look good for the future. Again, *we* on this forum buy them but that is not enough.

We can blame all sorts of conspiracies but they are not taking away our V8s, lack of sales are. Even of all of us go out and buy a S650 GT (and I might) it won't change the trajectory. Enjoy what we have now, the best Mustang ever with the best V8 ever.

 

[Mspider]

Thanks admin! These posts can degenerate badly. Now, back to V8 problems...

First , the damning numbers:

2021 14.9 M light vehicles sold in us

2021 Mustang sales 65,590

2021 Ford total sales 1.9 M


We are a niche within a niche, Mustang sales are less than 0.5% of the US total, this forum is probably less than 1% of Mustang owners. Yes, our voices (and our $$$) count but they probably do not count for much with Ford corporate. If all the new Mustangs represented on this forum were what Ford sold in a year they would not even *think* of continuing the line.

Like when the CEO of Chrysler was asked how much the Viper contributed to their bottom line he replied "We have more minivans fall off of trains than we sell Vipers.".

Back to the original title of this thread: our V8. Without the F-150 the numbers don't add up to making it profitable to build the engine. The F-150 Coyote is diverging from the Mustang version and the V6 Ecoboost works better for a truck anyway. Less and less Coyotes means higher prices. I will pay the gas guzzler tax and the too high option price for a V8 but many buyers won't, the numbers just don't look good for the future. Again, *we* on this forum buy them but that is not enough.

We can blame all sorts of conspiracies but they are not taking away our V8s, lack of sales are. Even of all of us go out and buy a S650 GT (and I might) it won't change the trajectory. Enjoy what we have now, the best Mustang ever with the best V8 ever.

That`s exactly what a lot of people don`t understand. They think there is a huge V8 market and Ford is making a huge mistakes if they got rid of them. It just not the case lol

 

[luca1290]

So I guess the problems coming for the V8 are just changing time, taste of the people and the fact that ultimately the majority of people see the car just as an appliance.
Look at the movies, back in time you had things like "Grease" where the cars represented a major part of the masculinity associated with a man (and other testosterone-induced behaviors).
Songs spoke of cars (Bon Jovi "Destination Anywhere", Bruce Springsteen "My Hometown" the first two that comes to mind but I can go on for ages).

Here in Italy (crap we should be the land of the car) I'm short of having my eyes removed from all the ugliness I see down the road.

The V8 is just one of the many things caught up in this crusade.
Fellows we are dinosaurs, the future is coming. And it will be pinky, very very pinky and softy and nobody ever gets offended.

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