Traction control, breaking loose, and countersteer

[15wile]

To the OP - YES most of those accidents are from people turning off the traction control. With the system fully engaged, you would really have to try to screw up - you ALSO with not get the massive smokey burn out these yahoos are going for. NO you in your Mustang GT accelerating hard with the traction control are NOT likely to lose control of the car. This car is built for drivers of ALL skill levels, it is when the driver thinks he is better than he or she is and decides to turn off the safety net.

That aside, practice it for fun. An autocross is a GREAT place to learn what your car can do and a WHOLE LOT OF SAFE FUN.

I have lived in the snow belt my whole life, I regularly take my vehicles to any one of the vast open parking lots when it snows for practice. I am no Tanner Foust, but I can drift my 2012 Crew Cab f350 super duty with the traction control off at will. Big girl likes to slide, but I also learned she likes to carry momentum so I have to have PLENTY of room! It is a sight to see for sure

heck with the front and rear lockers engaged it can do doughnuts almost on its own wheelbase.

Try it in a big empty lot - private property is of course best in the rain. Be gentle and just get a feel for it.

Also, ANY of the performance driving schools can really teach you a lot. I learned a lot from the driving portion of the police adcademy when I was there.

Yeah, that seems to be a consistent theme in the replies here. I'll give Auto X and/or one of the performance schools a hit.

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[2morrow]

I put some Nitto 555 G2s on the car. Got rid of the shitty Pirellis. Made a big difference.

I am looking into some 555 G2's for my next set in 285/305 and heard a lot of mixed reviews. What's you take on them other than being better than the OEM rubber?

Thx in advance.

 

[15wile]

I am looking into some 555 G2's for my next set in 285/305 and heard a lot of mixed reviews. What's you take on them other than being better than the OEM rubber?

Thx in advance.

I have 275s all around. Way better than OEM. Pretty good in the rain, even. Launches better, turns better, everything. All around, a much better tire. And pretty inexpensive compared to Michelin Pilot Super Sports. But my experience with performance tires is limited. So not sure how they stack up to some of the other options out there.

 

[2morrow]

Yeah, tires make soooo much of a difference. I would love to get a set of MPSS but don't want to spend the 3K for the sizes I want.

 

[GTP]

My car came with the 18x8" wheels and A/S tires. So when I shopped for several months, I obviously considered getting wider summer tires on a second set of wheels.

In the end, I rationalized that since my car is garaged in the winter, there really is no need to swap wheel sets. And there is really no point to get summer tires for the street given all the varying conditions and 8-9 months of use. So I got 19x9.5" wheels with 275 A/S tires.

Instead of testing the limits of summer tires on the street, I took my new A/S tires to the track to test my limits.

 

[trustyrusty436]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that these cars are not setup for the kind of power their producing. I don't seem to see a large number of tuner car having wrecks as much as the newby in a pretty much pure stock cars. :shrug: I almost get the impression that these car are safer after they have moded and tuned, than they are just off the Dealer lot. I know mine is. The public road is not a race track, meaning that a race track is generally cleaner and smoother than a city street and much safer to go hanging your ass out on.

 

[CCCP1999]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that these cars are not setup for the kind of power their producing. I don't seem to see a large number of tuner car having wrecks as much as the newby in a pretty much pure stock cars. :shrug: I almost get the impression that these car are safer after they have moded and tuned, than they are just off the Dealer lot. I know mine is. The public road is not a race track, meaning that a race track is generally cleaner and smoother than a city street and much safer to go hanging your ass out on.

I find my GT better vs my modded C6. It was very easy to go sideways in the Vette without even trying. Low end grunt of the LS2 and runflats made for a crazy car sometimes.

 

[bigfoot21075]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that these cars are not setup for the kind of power their producing. I don't seem to see a large number of tuner car having wrecks as much as the newby in a pretty much pure stock cars. :shrug: I almost get the impression that these car are safer after they have moded and tuned, than they are just off the Dealer lot. I know mine is. The public road is not a race track, meaning that a race track is generally cleaner and smoother than a city street and much safer to go hanging your ass out on.

It is NOT the car, it is the fact that Ford is selling a TRUE high performance machine for a price that the average person can buy and sadly the average idiot can buy. The car is fine, SOME people buying it have no business owning such a car.

 

[Dave]

My car came with the 18x8" wheels and A/S tires. So when I shopped for several months, I obviously considered getting wider summer tires on a second set of wheels.

In the end, I rationalized that since my car is garaged in the winter, there really is no need to swap wheel sets. And there is really no point to get summer tires for the street given all the varying conditions and 8-9 months of use. So I got 19x9.5" wheels with 275 A/S tires.

Instead of testing the limits of summer tires on the street, I took my new A/S tires to the track to test my limits.

That's a good point. Raising the limits of the car only really matters if you are competing against other people, rather than yourself.

I agree about the summer tires. I had a GTPP base and decided to move to a non-PP Premium since I didn't think the PP was stiff enough and I wanted the nicer interior and all that. With the crap stock summer tires the GTPP nearly came around on me at around 50 degrees and lightly raining. I was literally going like 15 mph around a corner and there goes the ass end. I caught it and straightened it up but it became pretty apparent that "summer tires" means warm and dry, even if you're being careful they can bite you in the ass.

So far, with the crap stock all-seasons, I haven't slid around much at all. If I decide to make my S550 a late spring to early fall car at some point in the future, or I decide to make it track-day ready, sure I'll put summer tires on it. But I can't say I'm missing much at this point, and there is a lot left on the table simply by upgrading to a "current generation" Ultra High Performance All Season tire. Sure, they're not getting you home safely in 4" of snow but they're also not skid-prone rocks in 40 degree temperatures.

 

[wireeater]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that these cars are not setup for the kind of power their producing. I don't seem to see a large number of tuner car having wrecks as much as the newby in a pretty much pure stock cars. :shrug: I almost get the impression that these car are safer after they have moded and tuned, than they are just off the Dealer lot. I know mine is. The public road is not a race track, meaning that a race track is generally cleaner and smoother than a city street and much safer to go hanging your ass out on.

How many tuner cars do you see coming with RWD and 435hp? Not a lot... Most people with modified-tuned import cars also know how to drive them. The Mustang is an affordable production car that comes with a generous amount of power right out of the box. A lot of people like myself come over with no experience with RWD and expect the same behaviors as our last car which doesn't exist. I would always drive my Subaru's without TC, it was always the first thing I would do when starting the car, turn it off. However in the Mustang, I now know better. I was running with it completely off the first month and realized I had a lot of learning before I could feel confident driving it aggressively with no aid. My assumption is almost all the accidents you see are people who are turning assists off to get the best "sweet burn out" and not knowing how to actually recover the car when the rear end goes wild.

 

[aham23]

so where does a guy go to learn? just speed around in empty parking lots at the break of dawn? auto cross? where?

 

[bigfoot21075]

so where does a guy go to learn? just speed around in empty parking lots at the break of dawn? auto cross? where?

Performance driving schools, auto X, Tracks days all across the country, join SCCA, PLENTY of resources for someone who wants to learn.

 

[15wile]

That's a good point. Raising the limits of the car only really matters if you are competing against other people, rather than yourself.

I agree about the summer tires. I had a GTPP base and decided to move to a non-PP Premium since I didn't think the PP was stiff enough and I wanted the nicer interior and all that. With the crap stock summer tires the GTPP nearly came around on me at around 50 degrees and lightly raining. I was literally going like 15 mph around a corner and there goes the ass end. I caught it and straightened it up but it became pretty apparent that "summer tires" means warm and dry, even if you're being careful they can bite you in the ass.

So far, with the crap stock all-seasons, I haven't slid around much at all. If I decide to make my S550 a late spring to early fall car at some point in the future, or I decide to make it track-day ready, sure I'll put summer tires on it. But I can't say I'm missing much at this point, and there is a lot left on the table simply by upgrading to a "current generation" Ultra High Performance All Season tire. Sure, they're not getting you home safely in 4" of snow but they're also not skid-prone rocks in 40 degree temperatures.

To be fair, the Nitto 555 G2 is a Summer tire too, but IMHO it performs better even in the rain than the stock Pirelli PZero Nero A/S tires. Granted, the Zero Neros were 235s and I am running 275s with my Nittos (on new wheels), so that may help too. But still. Probably wouldn't be any good in the cold, of course, but I live in Florida and don't have to worry about that much.

 

[Rebellion]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that these cars are not setup for the kind of power their producing. I don't seem to see a large number of tuner car having wrecks as much as the newby in a pretty much pure stock cars. :shrug: I almost get the impression that these car are safer after they have moded and tuned, than they are just off the Dealer lot. I know mine is. The public road is not a race track, meaning that a race track is generally cleaner and smoother than a city street and much safer to go hanging your ass out on.

Even with all its quirks (transmission, IRS, etc.), the 'stang actually handles pretty well for a heavy RWD car. Well, not "track" well...but pretty good to carve corners around town with a minimum understeer and roll.

I believe it's a matter of perspective and experience. I've driven years of panel vans, vans, long bed pickups...in other words, cars that obviously handle bad. Gives you good reflexes for those "oh shit" moments and teaches you to not push it until/unless the conditions are right.

 

[stoli]

Is it just me or is anyone else getting the feeling that these cars are not setup for the kind of power their producing. I don't seem to see a large number of tuner car having wrecks as much as the newby in a pretty much pure stock cars. :shrug:

Quite the opposite. Even bone stock they handle extremely well and people get a false sense of security and then drive them beyond their ability. At that point when they do get loose they have no idea how to safely handle the car.

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