Traction control, breaking loose, and countersteer

[Norm Peterson]

Light to moderate understeer shouldn't be a problem, just steer where you want to go.

Only when the understeer gets heavy and it feels like the front isn't responding very well (or about to slide). Here, one of the pieces of advice I've heard here from track day instructors/driving coaches is to actually unwind the steering a little to let the front tires get back down to lower slip angles - adding still more steering in will only drive the front tire slip angles up, maybe past the point of peak grip where it'll really want to keep plowing straight. I've never experienced understeer quite that heavy coming out of corners on the track (and nowhere near that heavy on the street), but I've been close enough a couple of times on track to get a glimpse of how it'd work.


Norm

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[2morrow]

When driving on streets...

I leave traction control on. I don't turn it off ever. - Smart on city streets or accelerating hard.

Never show off at car shows either. - Again, smart.

Also, I take it easier on corners than most. But I still break the rear end loose a lot when launching or downshifting on the straights for a little fun (it's a pony car not a granny car).
If I feel the rear starting to drift, I let off the gas and keep the front wheels straight. Usually don't countersteer much, if at all. I wait for tires to bite, then go back in with power.
This has never failed me. Never lost control. - Overall really mature and a good way to keep all your sheetmetal straight and not have people laugh at you at the local Cars & Coffee meets.

I would recommend to anyone driving a high powered car to take a HPD class and do some HPDE's. Totally worth it and you learn a lot.

However when I take it to the track all aids are off (the car is still diabolical with all that crap on though) it takes work to keep that much weight and power to do the things you want it too...even with big tires and upgraded suspension.

That's why I love it though, its a frickin' monster if you let it be. Have fun out there :cheers:

 

[2morrow]

Some other thoughts:

Lots of throttle... less steering input.
More steering input... less throttle.
Brake in a straight line.
Keep your eyes up on the horizon.

I'm sure you all know that but if you didn't...

 

[bigfoot21075]

To the OP - YES most of those accidents are from people turning off the traction control. With the system fully engaged, you would really have to try to screw up - you ALSO with not get the massive smokey burn out these yahoos are going for. NO you in your Mustang GT accelerating hard with the traction control are NOT likely to lose control of the car. This car is built for drivers of ALL skill levels, it is when the driver thinks he is better than he or she is and decides to turn off the safety net.

That aside, practice it for fun. An autocross is a GREAT place to learn what your car can do and a WHOLE LOT OF SAFE FUN.

I have lived in the snow belt my whole life, I regularly take my vehicles to any one of the vast open parking lots when it snows for practice. I am no Tanner Foust, but I can drift my 2012 Crew Cab f350 super duty with the traction control off at will. Big girl likes to slide, but I also learned she likes to carry momentum so I have to have PLENTY of room! It is a sight to see for sure

heck with the front and rear lockers engaged it can do doughnuts almost on its own wheelbase.

Try it in a big empty lot - private property is of course best in the rain. Be gentle and just get a feel for it.

Also, ANY of the performance driving schools can really teach you a lot. I learned a lot from the driving portion of the police adcademy when I was there.

 

[jasonstang]

Leave the electronics on it's hard to get the car out of control.
Even with hard acceleration it's hard to get crazy. The computer will cut throttle when it thinks you are out of control.

 

[wireeater]

I don't turn anything off and I can still get the car fish tailing but I know when this will happen. I did it for about 25ft pulling out onto a road yesterday just playing around. You really have to be an idiot to not know when this car will break loose from you.

 

[Rebellion]

Lots of great info here...thanks y'all.

Don't go to C&C!

 

[Genxer]

I'm leaning toward "tempting fate". You want to rein in the drift in the first direction, while being absolutely ready to catch the reaction spin in the opposite direction that will happen once you've stopped the initial one. Ideally, this catch the first then catch the opposite twitch becomes all but instinctive. Done without conscious thought (having to think about it takes too much time).

In the relatively few C&C/crash videos I've watched, it's been pretty consistent that the driver stays in the throttle until it's way past "too late". What I can't see is the drivers not being aware of the reactionary snap-spin the other way.

Guys - it is controllable, and it's a worthwhile skill to have to notice traction being lost as it first starts happening. And remember always that throttle modulation is key. Forget that drag-race/street challenge "gotta always have big instant response" thinking and come around to smoothly increasing throttle even when you're "playing" a bit.

Just because I have this handy. A little more than a minute in, I got just a little too greedy with the throttle coming out of the left turn just past the bridge (but watch the first minute for an idea of speed and throttle use). Watch closely for the tiny snap to the right immediately following the snap to the left getting caught.




Norm

I did the same thing on dry pavement when I tried to accelerate too early out of a corner with summer tires on a cold day. At the first feeling of getting loose I backed off the gas a bit and it straightened right up. I think some of these guys who hotdog try to get it spinning and keep it spinning as long as possible to impress everyone.

When I was a young pup I did plenty of 180s and even a 360 on wet roads. It doesn't take long to learn to control the throttle when you have few of those, lol.

 

[daltron]

Tires and suspension all day. Completely transforms the car. Great, wide tires are the most underappreciated mod on this front-heavy car.

 

[Hashbrownn]

15Wile.. I'm in the same boat.
All of my electronic nannies stay on. I always put it on wet/snow mode when it rains.
I don't want to hurt my self or others on the streets.

 

[daltron]

I guess I am the only guy who drives without fuse 62 lol.

 

[TexasRebel]

turning uses the same traction pads that starting and stopping use. If you are turning and starting you will break the tires loose with less throttle. Once the tires break loose and static friction is overcome, you won't do anything good until that tire stops spinning.

That's why during emergency braking & maneuvering you are better off if you can turn before braking. I still think everyone ought to be required to ride a motorcycle for 2 years before getting a license for more than 2 wheels.

The same principal goes into the stall speed of aircraft. If the plane is flying straight, all of the force generated by the air on the wings goes into producing lift. If you begin a turn, you lose lift force for turning force and your stall speed increases.

 

[Kpod]

I've had my GTPP for about a year and a half now. When I first got it i heard how easy it was to loose control and always drove in normal mode/rain mode when raining or cold. Then I went to sport and now I drive 100% of the time in track mode. I haven't came close to loosing the car. It seems so predictable to me. I drove it on the p-zeros through 35 degree and rain as my daily driver. It would spin through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd without trying to hard but the back end always stayed in the back for me.

I see all these crashes and just don't get it. I did grow up driving a 72 jeep commando with 304v8. Not much HP but good torque and a low gear and every time it snowed, the jeep was going out in 2wd and I only used 4wd to get out of the ditch (which only happened a couple times) or when driving someone else around. Maybe that helped enough that now it's second nature.

I need to go take some driving lessons though. I think they are a wise investment for everyone with these cars.

 

[15wile]

these cars are alot to handle for people who arent ready. I would recommend finding a school that can teach you proper techniques. Also, TIRES!!!!....... tires make a huge difference in how a car reacts.

I put some Nitto 555 G2s on the car. Got rid of the shitty Pirellis. Made a big difference.

Around KC we have auto x events...... go to a few....learn how to handle the car..... talk to fellow auto x'rs.

Not a bad idea, actually.

you stated you are a shitty driver? you are more than likely a untrained driver.

Untrained, yes. But people who ride with me always say that I scare the everlasting crap out of them. Which is odd, because I haven't done anything particularly bad IMHO. Knock on wood.

i have a drag racing and road course racing back ground, and have NO issues when the car wants to get out of control. Its smooth and predictable, but i also have pushed it to the limit to see exactly how it reacts.

My instinctive technique for this (probably wrong and bad) is to just let off the throttle, keep the wheels straight, wait for the tires to bite, then go back into the throttle when I feel I have control. Feel tires losing it? Let off gas. That's the instinct.

 

[15wile]

Lots of great info here...thanks y'all.

Don't go to C&C!

Or go to C&C and don't do anything showoffy. That's been the key for me.

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