Tire recommendation for HPDE

[Shadow277]

are you new around here?
If Ford actually gave a damn the PP1 would have had the FP track shocks, 19x10 wheels shod with 275 or 285.

Gotta make a profit somewhere.

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[shogun32]

Gotta make a profit somewhere.

have you LOOKED at the highway robbery they're calling the PP1 package price?

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

Not going to the track to win. The OP is looking for a good track tire for their first HPDE. Do you think they are trying to win? Sheesh man. All I am saying is for the price you can get a good bunch of laps out of them and drive good on the street. Not everyone is going balls out.

It is people like you I avoid at the track, all ego, the best at everything and always have a better story than the person talking about one.

Think that's uncalled for. Grintch's posts, including the one you quoted, are in my opinion of the more competent and informative here, and not at all in the "all ego" category.

 

[Norm Peterson]

What is R compound and how would I know if a tore is R?

A good enough easy definition - any tire with a treadwear rating that's less than 200.

Even 200-treadwear "autocross specials" like RE-71R, Rival (any), and AO52 are more tire than a newbie should start out on. Expensive, and even their extra grip over and above that of a good street tire can lead to the driver developing poor technique. The extra tire grip lets him get away with doing things he shouldn't be learning.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I thought stagger was for understeer? So why would the GT base model have 235s square and the premium have 255/275? I thought Ford cared about performance?

A 235/50 on 8" wide wheels is not a particularly grippy combination, and in combination with Ford's preferred alignment settings there isn't much chance of oversteer happening that isn't being provoked by the driver trying to use too much throttle in a corner.

The PP1 level adds a little limit understeer to protect those who might be expected to drive a little harder than owners of the base model but who may not be much better at car control.

Ford sort of cares about performance, but aside from the straight line stuff you're going to have to look at the GT350, PP2, Mach 1, and GT500 trims to find it.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

I would have never thought 305 squared would be a good idea.

Why not?

We're talking about trying to get 3700+ lb cars to bend themselves out of a straight line, cars that put something like 450 lbs of engine almost at the front axle line. So just like you need wide tires out back for traction when you jump on the gas to accelerate away when the traffic light goes green, you need wide tires up front to provide the lateral traction to get your cornering started (and fully developed).

Think in terms of corner weight divided by millimeters of tire width here, where you generally want a lower number of lbs/mm. For both front and rear tires unless you're drag racing.


Norm

 

[SVO MkII]

Which wheels are those? Size?

I think they are the same as mine, 19x11 SVE.

 

[SVO MkII]

Why not?

We're talking about trying to get 3700+ lb cars to bend themselves out of a straight line, cars that put something like 450 lbs of engine almost at the front axle line. So just like you need wide tires out back for traction when you jump on the gas to accelerate away when the traffic light goes green, you need wide tires up front to provide the lateral traction to get your cornering started (and fully developed).

Think in terms of corner weight divided by millimeters of tire width here, where you generally want a lower number of lbs/mm. For both front and rear tires unless you're drag racing.


Norm

Yep, weight has an exponential impact on handling and braking. I tracked my '72 911 for about 15 years with 205 front and 225 rear Dunlop 200 tread wear tires. These tires on that car, produced AMAZING grip. The car only weighs 2350 lbs, wet. The 305s on my 3500 lb Ecoboost provide comparable grip to my 911 with those "tiny" tires. Same story with brakes, i.e., tiny brakes on the 911 provide comparable braking to huge brakes on the Mustang.

If you ever get a chance to do any HPDEs with Spec Miatas, you'll get a better feel for how this works.

 

[Shadow277]

have you LOOKED at the highway robbery they're calling the PP1 package price?

I'm not saying what's wrong or right. I'm just saying they want to make money.

 

[Shadow277]

A good enough easy definition - any tire with a treadwear rating that's less than 200.

Even 200-treadwear "autocross specials" like RE-71R, Rival (any), and AO52 are more tire than a newbie should start out on. Expensive, and even their extra grip over and above that of a good street tire can lead to the driver developing poor technique. The extra tire grip lets him get away with doing things he shouldn't be learning.


Norm

I see. So I should be good with using Firehawk Indy 500s.

 

[Shadow277]

A 235/50 on 8" wide wheels is not a particularly grippy combination, and in combination with Ford's preferred alignment settings there isn't much chance of oversteer happening that isn't being provoked by the driver trying to use too much throttle in a corner.

The PP1 level adds a little limit understeer to protect those who might be expected to drive a little harder than owners of the base model but who may not be much better at car control.

Ford sort of cares about performance, but aside from the straight line stuff you're going to have to look at the GT350, PP2, Mach 1, and GT500 trims to find it.


Norm

Interesting. Meet a kid at a car meet with 235s and he said his V8 hooks like a champ... Anyways, mine was lowered by an inch and had Niche wheels. 255/305. I sold them and got the PP1 wheels because I was told on here they're great to learn on. Aside from having fun in the canyons, my track time is little.

 

[SVO MkII]

I see. So I should be good with using Firehawk Indy 500s.

I have Indy 500s on my 19x9 wheels in 265/40 size. I ran a couple of HPDEs with them. They are not substantially better on track than the Pirelllis that came with the PP, in my case. But they are not a bad place to start. And I will say, I really like the Indy 500s as a summer street tire.

 

[Shadow277]

Why not?

We're talking about trying to get 3700+ lb cars to bend themselves out of a straight line, cars that put something like 450 lbs of engine almost at the front axle line. So just like you need wide tires out back for traction when you jump on the gas to accelerate away when the traffic light goes green, you need wide tires up front to provide the lateral traction to get your cornering started (and fully developed).

Think in terms of corner weight divided by millimeters of tire width here, where you generally want a lower number of lbs/mm. For both front and rear tires unless you're drag racing.


Norm

So drag racers need staggered set ups. So a squared set up allows easier power slides?

 

[Shadow277]

I have Indy 500s on my 19x9 wheels in 265/40 size. I ran a couple of HPDEs with them. They are not substantially better on track than the Pirelllis that came with the PP, in my case. But they are not a bad place to start. And I will say, I really like the Indy 500s as a summer street tire.

PP1 use summers from the factory?

 

[shogun32]

PP1 use summers from the factory?

yes.

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