Time for sway bars.

Discussion in 'Suspension, Brakes & Chassis' started by Dave TBG, May 21, 2020.

  1. Dave TBG

    Dave TBG Patiently waiting...

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    Memorial day sales are coming and it seems like an opportunity to start on phase 2 of the suspension upgrade. I'm on GT350R springs and FRPP dampers and it's time to ditch the stock EB bars. I'm hoping to make the rear a little more responsive to throttle to induce a little oversteer when needed and to further flatten the car in the turns. The car is used on the street only, I don't expect the car to ever have the feel of my 944, but I think I can get it closer than it is now.
    I'd originally planned to use the GT350R sway bars, thinking they should pair nicely with the springs. I was thinking that Ford engineered it as a package and, at the time, they were very inexpensive. Since that time, prices have more than doubled ($300 for bars and bushings, compared to $140 a little over a year ago) and are now a stone's throw from the price of a few other options. I'm now also considering BMR SB043 and Ford Performance M-5490-G, both of these offer the advantage of adjustability. I'd be interested to hear your opinions on these options.

    If i do go with the Shelby parts, it leads me to a couple other questions. I've noticed that there is some question of availability when it comes to the GT350R front bushings, Levittown Ford's site doesn't show a bushing for the front bar. I have FR3Z-5484-C in my notes but Levittown says that part doesn't match (I'm using 2017 GT350R in my search as that is the last year showing non-magnaride parts). IIRC, I think I've heard about a superseded part number. Does anyone have any info on this?
     
  2. Norm Peterson

    Norm Peterson corner barstool sitter

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    I don't see any rate information for the M-5490-G bars, but I did find this information regarding bushings for it
    https://performanceparts.ford.com/part/M-5490-G.

    You may or may not have seen this table of bar rates. Sorry for the outsize .jpg
    S550 Sta-bar rates.jpg

    Norm
     
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  3. Brian@BMVK

    [email protected] Well-Known Member

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    IMO, do BMR front bar since the price difference is negligible or reversed, and the soft position on that bar is very close to the GT350 bar. I can't tell you the number of people I've worked with who had the urge to stiffen the rear bar and were very happy they did not after they did the front.
     
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  4. kz

    kz Well-Known Member

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    Norm - I am not sure this table is accurate - I think Ford Performance's Magnaride Handling Kit has GT350R bars in it - and front one is couple of mm thicker than BMR one (I have measurements for both somewhere). Don't see how BMR soft rate would be lower than GT350R - unless the bar in the kit isn't GT350R one.

    Edit - nevermind - I think the bar in the kit is thicker than stock GT350 one.
     
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  5. OP
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    Dave TBG

    Dave TBG Patiently waiting...

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    Thanks, Norm. I hadn't seen that material, it's very helpful.
     
  6. OP
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    Dave TBG

    Dave TBG Patiently waiting...

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    Thanks, Brian. You're input has always been on target. Keep in mind that I'm on base EB bars right now. I definitely need more in the rear than I currently have. I don't know that I really need that much more in the front, I'm more interested in making the back end respond more to throttle position. I'm used to being able to adjust my line with my right foot, I'd like to have that feeling in my Mustang as well. I realize that comparing this car to a modified 944 is apples and watermelons, but...
     
  7. Brian@BMVK

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    #7 [email protected], May 22, 2020
    Last edited: May 22, 2020
    Do you have the OEM bushings in the rear arms still? Freeing that up with a bearing or the Superpro bushing and getting a torsen diff out back make adjusting yaw with throttle just cake. I realize those are not small or easy mods but they are soooo key to making the car work. The torsen rotates the car without sliding dramatically better than the clutch pack if you let it work (keeping inside tire loaded).

    The front bar provides stability and consistency and plants the inside rear. The heavier rear bar will only make it tougher to use the throttle with confidence.
     
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  8. TeeLew

    TeeLew Well-Known Member

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    100%. Everyone is always talking about a stiffer RARB. In many cars, I'll disconnect it. Am I the only guy on the planet that likes a fat front bar and a rear end that actually puts power to the ground? Ya, it pushes mid-corner, but I can go deep into a corner, keep the nose loaded with the brakes, roll off the brake, let the thing turn, then go to full-throttle without drifting the tail to the exit.

    Most street cars are too neutral for me (once the cambers are in the ballpark). I think the development guys worry too much about getting a good skidpad number for magazines and too little about making the work in practical situations. No one is fast driving with their fingertips worried about the car swapping ends all the time.
     
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  9. Brian@BMVK

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    9QXIuWL.gif

    This is how you drive a Mustang fast...being a front heavy, overall heavy and powerful car. 100% this.
     
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  10. NightmareMoon

    NightmareMoon Well-Known Member

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    I’ve run a stiffer rear bar for a couple of years (autox reasons), and it can be a fun setup. Yes you need to ready to make corrections putting power down coming out of the corner and no I didn’t win any national championships with that setup, but it wasn’t broken or overly dangerous or anything. Car drove well.

    I will say that most of the rear bars on the market are too stiff to run w/o a much stiffer front bar. The GT350R bar is soft enough I think to make it work and the Strano Performance solid rear bar is adjustable and not too stiff, thats what I ran (and still run, but now paired with a BMR front bar).

    if the bar doesn’t come with clamps or a lip to keep it centered, get some clamps. You can use any mounts that fit a bar of the same diameter, so don’t sweat any specific mount.
     
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  11. OP
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    Dave TBG

    Dave TBG Patiently waiting...

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    Certainly not the info I was hoping for. I do still have the bushings, this round of parts is intended to be a few, simple to install parts. No alignment involved, jackstands in the driveway kind of stuff. I'm planning for the sways, lower k-brace and maybe rear upper shock mounts if I can stretch the budget that far. I'd like to add bearings at some point in the future (I'm not familiar with Superpro bushings, how do they compare?) But it won't be part of this upgrade. To be honest, I never really considered swapping the diff for a Torsen. Looks like there may be one or two more stages than I'd originally had in mind. Then again, this car's mission is "fun commuter vehicle," I may need to reevaluate my plans.
     
  12. Brian@BMVK

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    Based on measured rates the BMR rear bar on soft is actually softer than the R bar. The strano bar is a nice in between the GT PP and many aftermarket bars on soft.
     
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  13. Brian@BMVK

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    I just think you'd be surprised how much the front bar doesn't hurt being playful with the car on throttle.
     
  14. OP
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    Dave TBG

    Dave TBG Patiently waiting...

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    I'll definitely give it some thought, you haven't steered me wrong in the past.
     
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  15. Brian@BMVK

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    When you look at the front bar alone (more stiff = less grip on that end midcorner) it looks like something that wouldn't help on many levels. When you look at what it does for the load transfer with respect to the weight distribution, along improvements to the front suspension geometry dynamically, it's quite helpful.
     
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