Tick/Rattle and Timing

[5-PT-OH]

Just curious if anyone with the tick/rattle logged timing, and if the noise caused the car to sense false knock and pull timing?

I don’t have a way to check myself.

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[NoVaGT]

Do you think you have a bad engine?

I'm not sure how the knock sensors work, mechanically.

 

[5-PT-OH]

Do you think you have a bad engine?

I'm not sure how the knock sensors work, mechanically.

Engine seems fine, pulls really hard. Not trying to create another paranoia thread about the noises.

I Know stock motor has more in it but I won’t get as much timing advance as others as I’m in CA with only 91 available. Just curious if I’m leaving more on the table because of the noise.

 

[Bluemustang]

Engine seems fine, pulls really hard. Not trying to create another paranoia thread about the noises.

I Know stock motor has more in it but I won’t get as much timing advance as others as I’m in CA with only 91 available. Just curious if I’m leaving more on the table because of the noise.

Do you have a way to datalog and see how much timing you get? Every car is different and a lot of it is highly dependent on the quality of the fuel. I doubt there is a problem with your engine unless you notice something seriously wrong.

Do a log if possible and see if any positive knock appears. Is at part throttle? If so, probably okay. Is it at WOT? If so, probably fuel quality. I get good 93 around here, but I have found Shell 93 to be superior to others. I had a few degrees of positive knock which was taken away by Shell 93.

Also, one way to test for false knock is to put some octane booster in it. If it still knocks then it is possibly false. But research it first. Some of these octane boosters you don't want to use in your car. Make sure you use a good one.

 

[Hivel]

I did this experiment last year with an HPTuners dongle. I saw the 2K rattle aligned with the direct injection pump pressure ramping up. I looked for and did not see any knock retard being applied. This was a 3rd gear light throttle event; too much engine load and the rattle disappears.
Cheers

 

[5-PT-OH]

I did this experiment last year with an HPTuners dongle. I saw the 2K rattle aligned with the direct injection pump pressure ramping up. I looked for and did not see any knock retard being applied. This was a 3rd gear light throttle event; too much engine load and the rattle disappears.
Cheers

Thanks you answered my curiosity! Did you post about this? I’d love to read about it.

 

[Hivel]

Thanks you answered my curiosity! Did you post about this? I’d love to read about it.

No. But, you can see the PIDs I used in this post
https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/found-new-way-to-go-slower.108161/
Look at the red line in the bottom panel. KR is for Knock Retard. It goes up when the trans over reved during the 2-3 shift.
Cheers,

 

[Condor1970]

I did this experiment last year with an HPTuners dongle. I saw the 2K rattle aligned with the direct injection pump pressure ramping up. I looked for and did not see any knock retard being applied. This was a 3rd gear light throttle event; too much engine load and the rattle disappears.
Cheers

Seriously? You have data showing HPFP was kicking in when the 2k Rattle occurs? I've theorized this for a while now, because the tech at our Roush dealer told me it seems coincidental that the DI system starts kicking in around 2k as power increases, but I've never had any real mapping to show this. This is very good to know. Hopefully it will put to bed a lot of the worries people have about this rather annoying noise.

 

[bootlegger]

I did this experiment last year with an HPTuners dongle. I saw the 2K rattle aligned with the direct injection pump pressure ramping up. I looked for and did not see any knock retard being applied. This was a 3rd gear light throttle event; too much engine load and the rattle disappears.
Cheers

I have logged the rattle as well. The knock sensors never pick it up.

 

[bootlegger]

Seriously? You have data showing HPFP was kicking in when the 2k Rattle occurs? I've theorized this for a while now, because the tech at our Roush dealer told me it seems coincidental that the DI system starts kicking in around 2k as power increases, but I've never had any real mapping to show this. This is very good to know. Hopefully it will put to bed a lot of the worries people have about this rather annoying noise.

I am not sure the two are directly related. My rattle varies with temperature, A/C use, and oil additives. Right now, with a hot engine and A/C off, I can't hear any rattle. With a cold engine, my rattle comes in around 2400rpm. This all changed sometime around the point when the oil was changed and Ceratec was added. My rattle used to start around 1900-2000rpm. Seems like more of a coincidence, as there are multiple things that change in the range from 1800-3000 rpm.

 

[TheLion70x77]

Engine seems fine, pulls really hard. Not trying to create another paranoia thread about the noises.

I Know stock motor has more in it but I won’t get as much timing advance as others as I’m in CA with only 91 available. Just curious if I’m leaving more on the table because of the noise.

1. Oil catch can. 5.0's are all sensitive to octane dilution when you run it hard. High revving DOHC V8...tends to vaporize oil, even good oil, more than other motors. 3rd gen are probably even more prone because of higher compression and rev range than the 2nd gen (well unless your running a Power Pack on the 2nd gens like mine). C&D noted that their 2015 PP GT was the only car tested that day that experienced power fade...

2. Low friction coating. TriboTEX, CeraTech or Archoil. Reduce friction losses and free up another 10 to 15 whp, reduce heat, reduce wear, better piston ring seal and better oil adhesion to bearing surfaces.

3. Run a good quality oil that has a very robust base oil. PUP GTL's, AMSOIL PAO's, Driven mPAO's etc. I prefer PUP because it's performance is 95% of AMSOIL or other boutique oils but at typical off-the-shelf prices

4. VelossaTek Ram Air duct if you do any high speed driving. Use the pressure zone in front of your car that's already there to reduce pumping losses at higher speeds and actually build positive air pressure inside your stock air box.

Make the most of your fuel and the stock ECU tuning with the above three modifications. Making good and CONSISTENT power is about efficiency, it's not always about bolting on new parts etc. Eventually Ford Performance will offer a Power Pack or two for the 3rd gen 5.0's, I'd go that route for a power adder on pump gas because they do a full re-map. They are not just tweaking certain cell values in certain RPM ranges. They don't use OBDII for tuning either, they tune cycle cycle with a data pack that wires into the ECU harness. It's literally a factory hot tune that allows you to keep your warranty, is emissions compliant and highly reliable.

 

[kluke15]

never saw pulled timing with my 17' tick. but it only ticked at 1800rpm and i was never hard on the throttle until out of the tick range.

 

[gmuffley]

I did this experiment last year with an HPTuners dongle. I saw the 2K rattle aligned with the direct injection pump pressure ramping up. I looked for and did not see any knock retard being applied. This was a 3rd gear light throttle event; too much engine load and the rattle disappears.
Cheers

Finally

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