2K rattle gone (not to be confused with the typewriter/BBQ tick)

[SheepDog]

I thought I would post this as a new thread, instead of mucking up a converstion in a GT350 thread where this was mentioned.

After thinking about this a bit more, Im thinking it may be possible that my 2k rattle went away as a result of installing a return fuel system, if indeed the rattle is caused by the HPFP. Initially I thought maybe my 2K rattle went away as a result of installing the Boss 302/Predator timing chain tensioners, as the engines that do not have DI (Voodoo and Predator) also do not exhibit the 2K rattle like the GEN3 Coyotes do.

Most seem to think that the 2K rattle is related to the HPFP coming online, and my theory on this is that the HPFP relies on fuel supplied from the passenger fuel rail, and there may be a moment of fuel starvation to the pump when the PCM tells it to start sending fuel to the DI injectors. With the return system, the HPFP is getting its own dedicated -6AN feed directly from the Y-block that is fed from the pumps, so it doesn't have to share the volume of fuel in the passenger rail anymore. (I have the Lethal Performance stage 1 system, but other brands have a similar layout.)

Curious if others who have installed a return system, have also noticed their 2k rattle disappear?

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[smokescreens]

The "rattle" you speak of. Are you talking about the "typewriter" tick? If so my buddy has a first gen coyote and his ticks too

 

[SheepDog]

The "rattle" you speak of. Are you talking about the "typewriter" tick? If so my buddy has a first gen coyote and his ticks too

No Sir, Im talking about the consistent rattle that happens on the GEN3 Coyotes between 2-3K RPM at light load/throttle input, especially when the engine is cold.

 

[smokescreens]

Oh. I hear my hpfp tapping along at idle but after that it dont hear it anymore. I have longtubes and im 3in duals all the way back. Its close to stock noise with the active exhaust on quite however maybe my exhaust is just loud enough i dont hear it.

 

[SheepDog]

Oh. I hear my hpfp tapping along at idle but after that it dont hear it anymore. I have longtubes and im 3in duals all the way back. Its close to stock noise with the active exhaust on quite however maybe my exhaust is just loud enough i dont hear it.

Fire it up when completely cold and set your exhaust to "quiet" mode. Gently lean into the throttle while in neutral up to around 2000 RPM. It can also be duplicated when driving, but generally only does it on very light acceleration/throttle input.

 

[HeelToeHero]

Lots of 15-17 cars have the 2k rattle too, including my 2017. I don't think it's related to a fuel return. Ceratec also "hides" the rattle so that wouldn't work for a fuelling issue.

 

[SheepDog]

Lots of 15-17 cars have the 2k rattle too, including my 2017. I don't think it's related to a fuel return. Ceratec also "hides" the rattle so that wouldn't work for a fuelling issue.

Ceratec hides the BBQ tick, but I've not heard of anyone saying that it also addresses the 2K rattle. All I know is, I installed a return fuel system, and upgraded the tensioners to the Boss 302 tensioners, and my 2k rattle is 100% gone.

 

[Qcman17]

Ceratec hides the BBQ tick, but I've not heard of anyone saying that it also addresses the 2K rattle. All I know is, I installed a return fuel system, and upgraded the tensioners to the Boss 302 tensioners, and my 2k rattle is 100% gone.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was related to the timing chain tensioners so swapping those may be the reason you no longer hear it. . My car has it and its pretty loud and annoying but has never changed in 4.5 years of owning the car so I figure its the nature of the beast

 

[hlfbkd420]

Put on headers.. You will never hear it again

 

[5doorsoffury]

my last car had a 2k rattle. fomoco 2.3 direct injection. it was the vvt actuators pumping up. as long as there isnt di fuel issues i believe it has to do with that system. drove like that thru 10 years and 2 motors.

 

[geep81]

Where's the proof lol. Everyone and their mom posts a video of their 2k rattle, now someone says it's gone but no video? Hmmmmmm

 

[furdfan2018]

I thought I would post this as a new thread, instead of mucking up a converstion in a GT350 thread where this was mentioned.

After thinking about this a bit more, Im thinking it may be possible that my 2k rattle went away as a result of installing a return fuel system, if indeed the rattle is caused by the HPFP. Initially I thought maybe my 2K rattle went away as a result of installing the Boss 302/Predator timing chain tensioners, as the engines that do not have DI (Voodoo and Predator) also do not exhibit the 2K rattle like the GEN3 Coyotes do.

Most seem to think that the 2K rattle is related to the HPFP coming online, and my theory on this is that the HPFP relies on fuel supplied from the passenger fuel rail, and there may be a moment of fuel starvation to the pump when the PCM tells it to start sending fuel to the DI injectors. With the return system, the HPFP is getting its own dedicated -6AN feed directly from the Y-block that is fed from the pumps, so it doesn't have to share the volume of fuel in the passenger rail anymore. (I have the Lethal Performance stage 1 system, but other brands have a similar layout.)

Curious if others who have installed a return system, have also noticed their 2k rattle disappear?

There is a ton of not quite accurate info in your post.

1. Countless people with a return system (me included) still have 2k rattle.
2. The 2k rattle is WELL documented in the gt350 with forged mahle pistons -- so much so that Ford put out a bulletin to all indicating this is "normal".

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/possible-link-between-2018-engine-rattle-and-gt350s.106264/

 

[furdfan2018]

Ceratec hides the BBQ tick, but I've not heard of anyone saying that it also addresses the 2K rattle. All I know is, I installed a return fuel system, and upgraded the tensioners to the Boss 302 tensioners, and my 2k rattle is 100% gone.

My bet is it could be the Boss tensioners that quieted the engine down some.

 

[Hydraulick]

We need to be very specific about the rattle noise, because after searching through multiple threads for hours it's clear there is a ton of confusion between the BBQ tick, decel rattle and 2k rattle, and I believe multiple other rattles are being called the 2k rattle that are not decel/BBQ also around.

My 2k rattle on a 2017 gt manul(no di) which is what the general consensus appears to be to me is the 2k rattle, starts at 2k under very light throttle input only, and mine goes up to 3400 rpm (I believe my range is wider because I have a severe case, see below) If you pull off the throttle completely it stops immediatly which another user reported. If you give above a slight throttle input it disappears immedietly as well. It is a rhythmic fast rattle, not chaotic and it is not really "scratchy" sounding. It sounds like a muffled metalic rattle, like a ball bearing shaking In a tin can, that has a slight rubber lining on the inside of the can. I can reproduce it in neutral while not moving but it is greatly diminished which also I believe has been widely reported, and I believe I can only hear it while stopped in nuetral while others have said they cant because I now have a severe case of it. Anyone hearing it would know it isn't normal, it is embarrassing.

I just had my phasers fail and I did chains and vcts myself, following the ford motorcraft guides to a T. The shipment of tensioners I got was wrong however, and I very stupidly(really needed my car back, and issue was the vcts) used the old tensioners as I didn't see much about them failing. Before this I was vaugely aware of the rattle, but it was minor and didnt bother me much. After this job(including new chains and oil change, stayed with 5w-20) it is extremely prevalent.

Thus I can say:
If what I just described is the consensus on the official 2k rattle which it appears to me to be, it is NOT:
-DI on 2018+ as my car is a gen2 without DI
-trans or clutch related, my gen 2 does not have the dual mass flywheel, and I tested moving the shifter and pressing clutch fast during it occurring to guage impact, there was none.

It could be the oil change that caused it, but I think that is much less likely than it being the timing chain tensioners I reused, and had to fully depress and put a pin in them for the reinstall. I also put new vcts in obviously, but for reasons mentioned in a few other posts I think that is less likely than the tensioners, but getting a faulty vct is not out of the question(albeit all symptons of the vct failure were gone after this job). I also do not believe it to be piston slap.

Because I can reproduce it to some degree in neutral, I will get it in the air tommorrow and listen around/use a stethoscope with the rpm held to see if results help support this theory. Will pull the valve covers off and check chain tension as well.

I strongly believe it is the tensioners. I have to resolve this as mine is pretty loud and obnoxious, I am kicking myself for not replacing them.

Others may have more insight to the oil pressure and vct systems that could support or cast stones at this theory. My rough guess as to why the immediate difference of the rattle coming and going between 0% throttle input coasting at 2k rpm and starting to rattle immediatly under very light acceleration is related to either a change in the vct or oil pressure brought about by the ecu sensing the throttle input. Someone more knowlagle here feel free to chime in or tear that idea apart. Either way I'll likely be pulling it apart again and changing the tensioners, will give updates.

 

[HeelToeHero]

We need to be very specific about the rattle noise, because after searching through multiple threads for hours it's clear there is a ton of confusion between the BBQ tick, decel rattle and 2k rattle, and I believe multiple other rattles are being called the 2k rattle that are not decel/BBQ also around.

My 2k rattle on a 2017 gt manul(no di) which is what the general consensus appears to be to me is the 2k rattle, starts at 2k under very light throttle input only, and mine goes up to 3400 rpm (I believe my range is wider because I have a severe case, see below) If you pull off the throttle completely it stops immediatly which another user reported. If you give above a slight throttle input it disappears immedietly as well. It is a rhythmic fast rattle, not chaotic and it is not really "scratchy" sounding. It sounds like a muffled metalic rattle, like a ball bearing shaking In a tin can, that has a slight rubber lining on the inside of the can. I can reproduce it in neutral while not moving but it is greatly diminished which also I believe has been widely reported, and I believe I can only hear it while stopped in nuetral while others have said they cant because I now have a severe case of it. Anyone hearing it would know it isn't normal, it is embarrassing.

I just had my phasers fail and I did chains and vcts myself, following the ford motorcraft guides to a T. The shipment of tensioners I got was wrong however, and I very stupidly(really needed my car back, and issue was the vcts) used the old tensioners as I didn't see much about them failing. Before this I was vaugely aware of the rattle, but it was minor and didnt bother me much. After this job(including new chains and oil change, stayed with 5w-20) it is extremely prevalent.

Thus I can say:
If what I just described is the consensus on the official 2k rattle which it appears to me to be, it is NOT:
-DI on 2018+ as my car is a gen2 without DI
-trans or clutch related, my gen 2 does not have the dual mass flywheel, and I tested moving the shifter and pressing clutch fast during it occurring to guage impact, there was none.

It could be the oil change that caused it, but I think that is much less likely than it being the timing chain tensioners I reused, and had to fully depress and put a pin in them for the reinstall. I also put new vcts in obviously, but for reasons mentioned in a few other posts I think that is less likely than the tensioners, but getting a faulty vct is not out of the question(albeit all symptons of the vct failure were gone after this job). I also do not believe it to be piston slap.

Because I can reproduce it to some degree in neutral, I will get it in the air tommorrow and listen around/use a stethoscope with the rpm held to see if results help support this theory. Will pull the valve covers off and check chain tension as well.

I strongly believe it is the tensioners. I have to resolve this as mine is pretty loud and obnoxious, I am kicking myself for not replacing them.

Others may have more insight to the oil pressure and vct systems that could support or cast stones at this theory. My rough guess as to why the immediate difference of the rattle coming and going between 0% throttle input coasting at 2k rpm and starting to rattle immediatly under very light acceleration is related to either a change in the vct or oil pressure brought about by the ecu sensing the throttle input. Someone more knowlagle here feel free to chime in or tear that idea apart. Either way I'll likely be pulling it apart again and changing the tensioners, will give updates.

Does your 2k rattle go away once the oil was fully warm? Mine did.

Ceratec "fixed" mine. I'd be interested if the tensioners help.

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