Thermostat question

[Evolvd]

LOL I asked that same question and you'd think I just disavowed the existence of God inside of a Catholic church!

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[kris5597]

LOL I asked that same question and you'd think I just disavowed the existence of God inside of a Catholic church!

HAHAHA! Well, I see all of this about swapping thermostats to get ECTs down. But I want to know why, and not because "this guy" said so. Otherwise its a waste of money, and your losing efficiency...

 

[markmurfie]

HAHAHA! Well, I see all of this about swapping thermostats to get ECTs down. But I want to know why, and not because "this guy" said so. Otherwise its a waste of money, and your losing efficiency...

http://www.reischeperformance.com/WhyLowTemp.html

Not very scientific but comes from a creditable source.

For me it's hot year round. I wasn't seeing temps under 210 very often.

 

[Super Werty]

I can also confirm the Riesche 170 works better than the evenflo 160

I changed it out this weekend and CHT's are easily 15-20* cooler than the 160

 

[Higgs Boson]

So what is the point to swapping out the thermostat?

Does it make more power having the ECTs cooler? Does anyone have proof if this is the case? If this is so, why didn't ford do this from the factory???

In many cases, on other engines, I have seen when engine temperatures do not reach a certain temperature, the engine will not perform as it should. Engines make heat, heat turns into power, if it the temperature is not high enough, performance can suffer. And I am talking about ECTs need to be in the 200-205 range. I have a PP car with the Ford larger radiator, and this may affect my results, but my cylinder head temps stay around the low 200s, highest i've seen is around 215-220, and that's sitting in traffic in crap Louisiana heat.

If someone has valid information to answer my questions, by all means, enlighten me.

Kris

This question has been answered.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=945863&postcount=291
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-is-a-160-stat-available.html#post1587197828
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ter-160-degree-thermostat.html#post1589273993
and so on.....

 

[kris5597]

This question has been answered.

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showpost.php?p=945863&postcount=291
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-is-a-160-stat-available.html#post1587197828
http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ter-160-degree-thermostat.html#post1589273993
and so on.....

I'm still not convinced. Your argument for a road race car, sure. I can see the thermostat being replaced and even a radiator if ECTs are climbing north of 215-220F and that is turning rpms for a long period of time pushing the engine hard.

But the argument in saying that running the engine cooler will make more power, I'm just not convinced. I have seen cases where running an engine at 200-205F makes max power. Anything cooler, the engine actually lost hp. Now, asking me to provide this information at this point and time is quite difficult because this was a couple of years ago and data is lost somewhere in some forum. But, I still don't see it being beneficial.

 

[kris5597]

Has anyone actually seen more ignition advance at WOT due to running cooler ECTs and made more power? If the lower ECTs are in fact aiding the engine, then the knock sensor should see this and advance timing, as long as this option is enabled in the tune of course.

Kris

 

[Evolvd]

I believe I saw a post somewhere that said in order to add one degree of timing the intake charge has to drop over 10 degrees.

 

[Higgs Boson]

I'm still not convinced. Your argument for a road race car, sure. I can see the thermostat being replaced and even a radiator if ECTs are climbing north of 215-220F and that is turning rpms for a long period of time pushing the engine hard.

But the argument in saying that running the engine cooler will make more power, I'm just not convinced. I have seen cases where running an engine at 200-205F makes max power. Anything cooler, the engine actually lost hp. Now, asking me to provide this information at this point and time is quite difficult because this was a couple of years ago and data is lost somewhere in some forum. But, I still don't see it being beneficial.

You don't have to see it as beneficial for me to run a low temp thermostat, just for the record.

When I run my race car and I leave the starting line at 140 degrees I pick up a full tenth vs 160. Before I put the 170 in my mustang it was holding 215-220 cht and after it sits on 185. That's all that matters to me.

Given that you have access to hpt it should be pretty easy for you to simply click on the ect modifier table and look at how colder and hotter temps affect spark.

Again, I am more than happy for you to run or not run one, it has no bearing on whether I do. But I am talking about observable facts and you're running on opinion and gut? Can you link any of these cases you have seen? Have you ever actually tried it in any of f your own cars?

 

[markmurfie]

for anyone with out access to tuning software here Is the engine coolant temp vs ignition adder table and its multiplier. It explains why you want lower coolant tempatures. above 200 it pulls timing below it adds.

Don't get confused. You don't get 10* added. You might get a little more than 1*, but when 1* means 10hp I think a 65$ t stat is worth it.

When I say people don't have access that's not very true. You can download a free trial and one of the many tunes all over the forums for your self's and check it out. Its technically public knowledge.
there are many other tables like this that show you how to squeeze more HP out of your engine with simple things.

 

[kris5597]

You don't have to see it as beneficial for me to run a low temp thermostat, just for the record.

When I run my race car and I leave the starting line at 140 degrees I pick up a full tenth vs 160. Before I put the 170 in my mustang it was holding 215-220 cht and after it sits on 185. That's all that matters to me.

Given that you have access to hpt it should be pretty easy for you to simply click on the ect modifier table and look at how colder and hotter temps affect spark.

Again, I am more than happy for you to run or not run one, it has no bearing on whether I do. But I am talking about observable facts and you're running on opinion and gut? Can you link any of these cases you have seen? Have you ever actually tried it in any of f your own cars?

As previously stated, no, I cannot find the previous information discussed, its lost somewhere from a couple of years back. No, I have never tried one on my own vehicle, but since this discussion has gone on, perhaps it's worth a shot to see if it is really worth the fuss or not. If I do get one I'll have to test it like all previous modifications I have tested on my mustang up to this point. We three have had many other in depth conversations in regards to beneficial tuning and modifications and why they do what they do, I don't believe you guys would steer me wrong now. I'll check the HPT tables and invest in a T Stat and give it a shot. I'll keep you updated with my results.

 

[Higgs Boson]

make sure you get the reische, the other one has no effect on temps at all.

 

[kris5597]

Here is my argument with the lower temp thermostat. It's only going to allow the opening point of the thermostat to be lower, but not actually make the engine run cooler during medium to higher load, at this point, it is up to the cooling system to regulate this, not the thermostat.

If you are beating on an engine the ECTs will reach a certain point until the coolant system, by design, takes control and keeps it below a certain temperature, at this point, most thermostats are already open and a lower temp stat is doing nothing at this point. Now if you are driving around normally, with low load on the engine, the lower temp thermostat will in fact keep the ECTs cooler than with a higher temperature thermostat. So the initial hit and first time you floor it, the ECTs will be cooler, for how long, I do not know, but I don't see it being a very long time until the ECTs shoot back up to what the coolant system will regulate it at.

What ECTs are you guys seeing after WOT pulls and during WOT pulls with the lower temp stats and with the factory stats?

This is a pretty decent read btw.

http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/2012/04/low-temp-thermostats-whats-the-advantage/

Kris

 

[kris5597]

So let's say you do run the cooler thermostat, and sitting still in the staging lanes waiting to run down the 1/4 or 1/8 mile. IATs are going up no matter what, but ECTs could possibly stay around the 180-190 degree. However, as soon as you leave, ECTs will then shoot back up. So for the first few seconds you will have the benefit of coolers ECTs but for exactly how long, I am not sure. But even if ECTs are cooler and IATs are up, ECTs being cooler is now pointless because timing will be pulled because of IATs.

 

[evo8904]

I prefer to have lower CHTs. Mine will range from 181 to 185 for normal driving. A few days ago I did 5 back to back 3rd gear pulls for logging. My CHTs were only 190 after that. If you want higher CHTs and think that higher temps is going to give you better performance

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