thermostat

Evolvd

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lol, are you serious? Why even have a thermostat at all with that logic!!!
To keep coolant from flowing until the engine reaches its designed operating temp. Maybe I should ask you if YOU'RE serious?





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Need4Speed15

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Wow, this thread has gotten pretty silly with the debates. I'm not getting involved with that...

I just wanted to post up that I have a brand new Evenflo 160 thermostat that I bought from Livernois a while ago that I'm willing to give to someone...I'll even pay shipping. Only thing I ask is the person posts up results after they install it. If your interested just PM me.

The reason I'm not installing is I picked up a Reisch 170 from Lethal when I was there getting other things and decided to go with that instead.
 

ifly680g

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I honestly have no idea why NASCAR does anything as I hate redneck racing lol. And my original question was in relation to swapping thermostats and getting lower temps when the temp is controlled by the efficiency of the radiator. This isn't rocket science either. I've already seen that having a 160 or 170 stat gives the same CHT that I have with stock. So I'm calling "snake oil sales pitch" until someone can prove otherwise with some actual data instead of "because I said so".

No worries about the A&P thing, I got smarter and decided to break airplanes instead of fixing them lol
Some of my best friends are A&P's I like to think they keep me safe.

Any way, my engine runs 185-190 CHT now and I'm happy if your happy with 200 -215 great both temps are within limits and any power one way or the other is going to be negligible any way.
 

ifly680g

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Wow, this thread has gotten pretty silly with the debates. I'm not getting involved with that...

I just wanted to post up that I have a brand new Evenflo 160 thermostat that I bought from Livernois a while ago that I'm willing to give to someone...I'll even pay shipping. Only thing I ask is the person posts up results after they install it. If your interested just PM me.

The reason I'm not installing is I picked up a Reisch 170 from Lethal when I was there getting other things and decided to go with that instead.
I have one also Free for the asking! I will ship free also.
 

Livernois Motorsports

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I'm surprised that you are still trying to defend the Evenflo. There are more than enough examples in this thread to show that it does not lower the temps as low as the Reische. Maybe the Evenflo should be change to the Evenflo 175 because saying that it is 160 is just flat out misleading.

Or, is there another reason behind the defense of this Evenflo....

OK, just to go over some more info, the stock stat is technically done in C, not F. I understand what is inscribed in the stock stat, but if you test it, you will see it starts to open around the 178 mark.

The bigger issue is that almost everyone is automatically assuming that making it as cold as possible is the pure goal here. It isn't. Our thermostat opens at the 160 mark (as proven my independent testing from customers numerous times), to achieve a target CHT, ECT, and EOT that fits with all of our testing to show the best balance of power, and durability.

What I find more troubling is that people are overlooking that somehow the other stats mentioned here are dropping the temps far more than they should, which right there shows you they are not doing as intended. If so, you would only see a 4-9* drop (since nothing is 100% efficient) when using a 170 and ours would range in the 13-19* range (again, since nothing is 100% efficient). So those posting that their temps are dropping 30-40* from an 8* (ok, let's call it 10*) lower stat should be alarmed that something is causing the engine to run too cool. Instead the focus is that the other thermostat is lowering the temp further than ours is.

And yes, if there is a consistent bypass allowing coolant to flow past the thermostat, it will allow for easier burping. Again, this is not a positive not matter how you look at it.

So, why we continue to defend the EvenFlo, is simple. We know it's doing what it's supposed to do, which is lower the temps in the range specified above. NOT to lower the temps to 160. No thermostat will ever allow the engine to run at the temp it opens at, no matter how cold the ambient temp is. It's designed to open at that temp and start cooling. Since, as mentioned, these cars don't actually have a coolant temp sensor, only a CHT sensor, everything else is assumed, or modeled. Now, put a sensor in the thermostat housing (like some cars used to have) and all of this might change, but they don't do things like that any longer.
 

Higgs Boson

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I did not have time to make any vids, but I did remove the EvenFlo and install the Reische today. Regardless of temp rating and hot side/cold side my results are obvious.

The EvenFlo 160 was very typically in the 210 CHT range, usually maxing out around 217 (No change from stock).
The Reische 170 saw a maximum of 192 CHT in mixed driving averaging around 185-190.

It is super obvious that your temps will be lower with the Reische vs the EvenFlo and no, I have no skin in the game (besides my $100 for both stats). The EvenFlo is already in the trash can.

Regarding what is the purpose of a lower temp thermostat and what is to gain from running a lower coolant temperature:

1. A thermostat sets the floor temp for when coolant circulates, this is correct. Lowering from 180 to 160/170 will allow coolant to flow sooner.

2. Unless you can tell a difference between your heater operating at 180 or 160, I would say there is zero difference in performance in the winter. Your system is blowing heat long before the thermostat opens and will blow hot air with any thermostat rating.

3. Your engine goes into closed loop LONG LONG before 160, more like 90 degrees coolant temp, and also depending on O2 sensor temp in the Fords. A lower temp thermostat is not going to cause you to get bad mileage because the car is stuck in open loop.

4. A thermostat does not "snap" open, it opens gradually over about 15 degrees or so. This means that a 160/170 thermostat is flowing 90-100% of capacity before a 180/190 has even started to open. It's about coolant volume, the lower the temp, the more volume at a lower temp. This results DIRECTLY in a lower temperature during operation. The only time you will overcome this effect is hard road course use where the radiator becomes the weak link and temps are well elevated above 220 for an extended period. Street use and drag use, most of the time a thermostat is all you need to keep cool.

5. Heat is the enemy of power no matter what. If you think cars run hot these days to help performance, you are wrong. Wrong! They run a hotter operating temp to help emissions only. Hot coolant is less able to remove heat from something hot. There is less heat transfer from hot to hot than hot to cold. That's either common sense or thermodynamicals. I forget. Heat in the engine means hotter combustion chambers which means more chance of preignition/detonation which means you can't light the mixture as early, which means backing off spark lead (timing) which means less power in most cases. Even if you don't tune the car, the stock tune is programmed to add timing when it's cold and remove timing when it's hot. Keep your coolant (and intake charge temps of course) colder and you will indeed make more power.

Coolant does not have to be 212 degrees to "boil off" moisture. Evaporation begins way below boiling point....

I have run NHRA and IHRA for 20 years and always run faster with lower coolant temps, even if ambient/air temps are the same (as long as the oil isn't also cold, of course).
 

daltron

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OK, just to go over some more info, the stock stat is technically done in C, not F. I understand what is inscribed in the stock stat, but if you test it, you will see it starts to open around the 178 mark.

The bigger issue is that almost everyone is automatically assuming that making it as cold as possible is the pure goal here. It isn't. Our thermostat opens at the 160 mark (as proven my independent testing from customers numerous times), to achieve a target CHT, ECT, and EOT that fits with all of our testing to show the best balance of power, and durability.

What I find more troubling is that people are overlooking that somehow the other stats mentioned here are dropping the temps far more than they should, which right there shows you they are not doing as intended. If so, you would only see a 4-9* drop (since nothing is 100% efficient) when using a 170 and ours would range in the 13-19* range (again, since nothing is 100% efficient). So those posting that their temps are dropping 30-40* from an 8* (ok, let's call it 10*) lower stat should be alarmed that something is causing the engine to run too cool. Instead the focus is that the other thermostat is lowering the temp further than ours is.

And yes, if there is a consistent bypass allowing coolant to flow past the thermostat, it will allow for easier burping. Again, this is not a positive not matter how you look at it.

So, why we continue to defend the EvenFlo, is simple. We know it's doing what it's supposed to do, which is lower the temps in the range specified above. NOT to lower the temps to 160. No thermostat will ever allow the engine to run at the temp it opens at, no matter how cold the ambient temp is. It's designed to open at that temp and start cooling. Since, as mentioned, these cars don't actually have a coolant temp sensor, only a CHT sensor, everything else is assumed, or modeled. Now, put a sensor in the thermostat housing (like some cars used to have) and all of this might change, but they don't do things like that any longer.

How does the car tell what the coolant temperature is? Does it use some calculation of the CHT?
 

Higgs Boson

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How does the car tell what the coolant temperature is? Does it use some calculation of the CHT?
yes it is inferred. lots of different manufacturers infer things like valve temps, barometric pressure, manifold pressure (ford also), etc. they create a model around in house/lab testing and use the model as part of the tune, including the torque model. all spark, airflow, and fueling is now controlled based off deviation from the model and driver input (demand). it is no longer just about measuring airflow.
 

daltron

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yes it is inferred. lots of different manufacturers infer things like valve temps, barometric pressure, manifold pressure (ford also), etc. they create a model around in house/lab testing and use the model as part of the tune, including the torque model. all spark, airflow, and fueling is now controlled based off deviation from the model and driver input (demand). it is no longer just about measuring airflow.
Interesting, thanks!
 

Terminated

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Came here to see if anyone was running a different water/glycol mix with water wetter and the Reische 170, and what that ratio was and how it was working out... found WWIII instead...
:popcorn:
 
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stoli

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Came here to see if anyone was running a water/glycol mix with water wetter with the Reische 170, and what that ratio was...
When I installed my Reische I refilled with a bottle of wetter and distilled water. If I recall correctly I used a little under 2 gallons to refill (front of the car was on ramps, so it didn't fully drain).
 

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