Stock vs Tuned vs JLT vs PMAS - The Real Dyno Test!

[Jeff's FRC]

i did pmas/headers/lund ff tune at the same time and it is a totally different car...i can't tell ya what did the most and have zero numbers to prove anything, but i can assure you these folks aren't lying to you about the huge improvements:cheers:

Agreed. Last spring I did CAI, full exhaust, and a flex tune. Car is a completely different animal! Much more fun and enjoyable to drive for sure.

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[beefcake]

added the stock airbox in there.

you can't pull the stock tune as far, but you can see it drop up top

and you can see good gains especially in the mid range just on the tune, but then the boxes above the tune

 

[BmacIL]

added the stock airbox in there.

you can't pull the stock tune as far, but you can see it drop up top

and you can see good gains especially in the mid range just on the tune, but then the boxes above the tune

Thanks!! Just went and looked at it again. 8-15 ft-lbs throughout the midrange. Not bad at all.

 

[Josh_TypeX]

Hey Beefcake, thanks for the good work. Can you please put up one more graph for us though? The best run of each of the 4 tests overlaid on a single graph. The graph you posted with all 3 runs from each test is a bit too busy to get a good understanding.

 

[Terminator2]

I have to go decently out of my way to get it. If it weren't a daily driver I wouldn't care about that. I also don't want the significant drop in range that E-85 would give me...same reasons.

As for headers, the biggest reasons are: 1) Expensive, though some are quite substantially more affordable, 2) doing the install on jackstands appears to be an exercise in torture, 3) it would make my fairly loud exhaust louder than I want, even if sounding amazing, and 4) which is related to #1, I'd rather spend that kind of money on handling mods, including dedicated track wheels & tires.

All true. Cost isn't much for TSP/OBX/maximizer and Pypes but install is indeed a pain. Gains are 100% worth it though (I'd do it again even just for sound gains alone) and quieting the exhaust isn't difficult but requires 3 stages of mufflers/resonators or 2 stages if you are still running cats.

 

[El_Centenario]

Some 3.73 gears might be what your looking for. You'll get better off the line acceleration with no need to rev high or exhaust getting louder.

No, I just don't want something that only gains at the top, because I don't spend all that much time there. I'd happily pay that for something that gave me a noticeable gain through the midrange.

2-5 HP in the areas you actually drive the car in, with 15 HP at the very top is not a good use of money, IMO. People like [MENTION=11514]09jsw[/MENTION] and others give me optimism that it's more than meets the eye, though, and that the dyno graph only tells a small portion of the story.

 

[HGFireHazard]

So it essentially looks like +/- 20-25 HP/TQ gains at peak values with a notable increase of area under the curve.

I'd say those numbers are very respectable for the cost and ease of the mods involved. Huge thanks gentlemen for doing this for us. Once funds come available I'll be coming your way for more business, Terry.

 

[daltron]

If anything, the results can shut up the people who say CAI's have no gains at all.

 

[BmacIL]

Some 3.73 gears might be what your looking for. You'll get better off the line acceleration with no need to rev high or exhaust getting louder.

I think you might be right!

 

[RomanB]

If anything, the results can shut up the people who say CAI's have no gains at all.

Still would have seen pulls done with a closed hood like initially planned. I think those gains would have shrunk, especially with the PMAS. But understandably that would be a ton of pulls on the dyno.

 

[2015 Silver GT]

If anything, the results can shut up the people who say CAI's have no gains at all.

A couple of horsepower gained with the hood open? You can't be serious?

 

[RomanB]

A couple of horsepower gained with the hood open? You can't be serious?

Livernois already tested a open air element intake with the hood up and down. Made less power with the hood down, so yes I am serious. Less surface area to breathe through. The stock intake obviously doesn't benefit from a open hood, but I can reasonable assume a open air element may.

 

[RomanB]

A couple of horsepower gained with the hood open? You can't be serious?

Here is the link to the post with their dyno open hood vs closed...

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65348&highlight=Hood+closed&page=5

It would have been nice to see someone else test it the way they did.

 

[Magnificent Bastard]

My response will likely be different, due to what I'm looking for. So, disclaimer added...

I've seen many of these CAI and tuning debates over the years. On most modern cars, assuming a basic levels of mods, CAI's don't do much. Not *nothing*, but expressed as a percentage of total engine output, very minimal. Without full exhaust track, engine stroking/porting, or FI, it's almost a vanity or sound mod, like most catbacks.

For tuning to make a lot of gains over stock on a modern NA, you either need to be willing to run on the ragged edge of reliability or repeatability in terms of fueling and fuel quality. Tuning on stock FI setups yields far more, mainly due to warranty issues from the manufacturer - but some of the appetite for destruction remains, for sure. FI setups offer far wider ranges for tuning, so a lot more variation is possible. This is not to say it's not worthwhile, not at all - many factory tunes can be improved in terms of "spirited" drivability and ultimate RPM power. But it's not some magic formula, nor is it anything that someone like Ford, with eons of race tuning experience on tap, hasn't considered, especially for a marquee car like the Mustang.

As you open things up, the "flow" as a whole yields better gains, up to the motor's tolerance. Thinking you will get huge gains out of a tune and a CAI without addressing the entire exhaust track is delusional. Thinking you will get significant gains out of a catback, not touching the cats and the headers as a whole, is also delusional. It's a game of the lowest common denominator, and whatever you left stock is that lowest common denominator.

Now, when people are showing dyno results from tunes, CAI's, and full engine-back exhausts - now we have a conversation, or the beginnings of one. Depending on the motor we're talking about, flow there can have a drastic effect - so TB's, porting, etc. - flowing, burning, and extracting more is the game.

TLDR - it matters little if I can, or am optimized to do so, spit a gallon of fukkin McDonald's Orange Drink per second if I have to spit that through a stock McDonald's drink straw. Until that straw has a diameter of 2" or so, various things will happen to make sure that my Orange Drink spitting never achieves the gallon per second that I so badly want to achieve. Likely I'll choke to death on my own backwash until then, which I don't want. To sum up - if you aren't addressing the whole tract, your gains will be minimal.

Not that I am judging how people spend their money - some people want to cram $1000 bills up their asses, light them on fire, and jump into their swimming pools filled with sparkling wine - and god love those beautiful bastards. But I am not one of them, and I must rely to something available for free - science and documented results.

Let the sparks fly...

 

[2015 Silver GT]

Livernois already tested a open air element intake with the hood up and down. Made less power with the hood down, so yes I am serious. Less surface area to breathe through. The stock intake obviously doesn't benefit from a open hood, but I can reasonable assume a open air element may.

Why are you quoting me? I never quoted you.

I did my own testing since I tend not believe vendors. My car ran it's best times with the stock intake.

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