Stock vs Modded

[Tony T]

I like the S550s because they are the nicest, most powerful Mustangs in Ford history. The body design and the interior quality are the best ever.

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[Sawyerjames]

My two cents... it all boils down to personal preference and what YOU bought the car for. Some people want a moderately fast car for a low price and a warranty, so they purchase a GT. I myself never buy a performance car for the warranty, resale, or anything else but to make it fast and most of all ENJOY.

 

[NoVaGT]

Maybe not. My Dad saw a Mustang like he had once go across the auction on TV. 1965 298 Fastback. He paid less than 2k for his new. I believe the one on the TV auction sold for around 35k. And it was stock.

I modded my old 96 Cobra. It was fun to drive, but when I sold it the reality set in.

You will never get your money back on the mods. As a matter of fact, when looking for an older Mustang, you stay away from the ones that have been modified..

1. It wasn't you Dad's car, just like the OP's car will never be at B.J.

2. If you're modding your car, and expecting to recoup that $$ at sale time, you're gonna have a bad day.

3. People don't avoid lightly modded cars, they just don't consider the mods in what they offer for the car.

 

[Ebm]

I like the S550s because they are the nicest, most powerful Mustangs in Ford history. The body design and the interior quality are the best ever.

But they aren't the most powerful Mustangs in Ford history. I agree the body design is good and they have the nicest interior of any Mustang, but the 15-17 Stangs were slower to 60 than the Coyote S197s.

If you are talking modding potential, then yes, the S550 has more power potential on a stock block from aftermarket parts than any other Mustang.

 

[Norm Peterson]

But they aren't the most powerful Mustangs in Ford history. I agree the body design is good and they have the nicest interior of any Mustang, but the 15-17 Stangs were slower to 60 than the Coyote S197s.

Quickest to 60 isn't the same thing as most powerful. What about weight differences, gearing differences, and ability to launch cleanly?


Norm

 

[BmacIL]

But they aren't the most powerful Mustangs in Ford history. I agree the body design is good and they have the nicest interior of any Mustang, but the 15-17 Stangs were slower to 60 than the Coyote S197s.

If you are talking modding potential, then yes, the S550 has more power potential on a stock block from aftermarket parts than any other Mustang.

The 15-17 GT and 18+ GT are all more powerful than any S197 GT/Bullitt. The 2013-14 GT was very slightly quicker in the 1/4 and to 60 because live axle and about 150 lbs lighter, but they weren't more powerful (launched with 412 hp, upgraded to 420 for 13). When the new GT500 comes out, it'll be the most powerful production Mustang, so yes, the S550 is more powerful on the whole.

 

[Ebm]

Quickest to 60 isn't the same thing as most powerful. What about weight differences, gearing differences, and ability to launch cleanly?


Norm

Stock for stock, the S197 Coyote is faster. And yes, quickest to 60 is a good indicator of which car is faster. Norm, don't you read magazines or articles on websites that advertise a 0-60 time? 9 times out of 10 the faster 0-60 time is the faster car.

I knew when I said the S197 Coyote is faster, people would get offended. It's a fact. Doesn't mean much, but it's true.

I correlate a powerful car with a faster car, not necessarily a bigger engine. If a Mazda RX7 beat a Mustang several times down the 1/4 mile, the RX7 is the faster, more powerful car. End of story.

The 15-17 GT and 18+ GT are all more powerful than any S197 GT/Bullitt. The 2013-14 GT was very slightly quicker in the 1/4 and to 60 because live axle and about 150 lbs lighter, but they weren't more powerful (launched with 412 hp, upgraded to 420 for 13). When the new GT500 comes out, it'll be the most powerful production Mustang, so yes, the S550 is more powerful on the whole.

We all have different opinions. I'm well aware of the horsepower specification of these Mustangs. To me, faster means more powerful. There's a direct correlation there. The 18 is faster yes, the 15-17 is NOT. You can't count the GT500. It's a special model, not a regular model. Just like the GT350.

 

[Ronin5.0]

I think that right now the best bang for the buck is a 15-17 Coyote in GT Premium with a Roush and Borla combination. Fast, reliable, Ford based. However I may be biased.

 

[NoVaGT]

The gas engine HP race is effectively over. We're at the point now of reducing weight with carbon fiber, composites, aluminum, magnesium, etc.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'd think the next step in over-all improvement of vehicles is weight reduction. More power can't be put to the ground without major engineering and production costs, and weight penalties.

Imagine a Mustang that was 1000lbs lighter. That would really take things to the next level.

 

[Maggneto]

S550's can be found at Barret Jackson(stock and modified) so maybe we should stop saying that S550's will never cross the block at BJ as they obviously already have and will continue to do so.

The 2015 Mustang GT at BJ did quite well for a modified S550 and sold for 45k.

https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Events/Event/Details/2015-FORD-MUSTANG-GT-185785

I get they we are not a bunch of economics professors but the value of anything depends on how much someone is willing to pay for it. Supply vs. demand. Rare paintings sell for millions because there is only 1 painting and multiple people(Schmucks) who are willing to pay millions for the 1 painting. If there were 1000 paintings the value of the painting would probably be less because the demand would not be as great. It all depends on supply vs. demand.

At the rate you grease monkeys are destroying S550's there aren't going to be many left in 20 years. Historically, the anniversary years and first years of a new design are more desirable so I would expect a 2015 to have more demand than a 2016-17. Still, who knows what the demand will be for the Mustang after a few generations of tree humping, man-bun wearing millennial slackers.

As for the future of oil and combustion engines, I think they will be with us for a very long time. We all can't drive electric vehicles as the cost, materials, infrastructure, and drain on the gird are prohibitive.

We have the technology today to produce green biogas as a drop in supplement for gas and who knows where this will eventually lead in 20, 30, 50 years. Maybe it will be cheaper and better for the environment to invest in biogas than electric as biogas doesn;t require a new architecture or infrastructure. I am no scientist so maybe I am talking out the backend.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogasoline

"BG100, or 100% biogasoline, can immediately be used as a drop-in substitute for petroleum gasoline in any conventional gasoline engine, and can be distributed in the same fueling infrastructure, as the properties match traditional gasoline from petroleum.[1] Dodecane requires a small percentage of octane booster to match gasoline. Ethanol fuel (E85) requires a special engine and has lower combustion energy and corresponding fuel economy.[2]

But due to biogasoline's chemical similarities it can also be mixed with regular gasoline. You can have higher ratios of biogasoline to gasoline and not have to modify the vehicles engine unlike ethanol"

 

[Ebm]

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'd think the next step in over-all improvement of vehicles is weight reduction. More power can't be put to the ground without major engineering and production costs, and weight penalties.

Imagine a Mustang that was 1000lbs lighter. That would really take things to the next level.

Not gonna happen. The cost of lighter weight materials like carbon fiber or aluminum would make the price of the Mustang rise out of the bargain performance car it has always been. Cars are only going to get heavier when more safety requirements are enforced. Very grim outlook on the future of performance cars the average person can afford.

 

[NoVaGT]

Not gonna happen. The cost of lighter weight materials like carbon fiber or aluminum would make the price of the Mustang rise out of the bargain performance car it has always been. Cars are only going to get heavier when more safety requirements are enforced. Very grim outlook on the future of performance cars the average person can afford.

I'm not so sure. Corvettes have tons of aluminum, carbon fiber, and magnesium, and they start at $56K. Mustangs reach to that price level too.

If more manufacturers start using the same materials, production costs can be cut significantly.

 

[Norm Peterson]

Stock for stock, the S197 Coyote is faster. And yes, quickest to 60 is a good indicator of which car is faster. Norm, don't you read magazines or articles on websites that advertise a 0-60 time? 9 times out of 10 the faster 0-60 time is the faster car.

Doesn't matter how many magazine or online articles I might have read, or what I took away from reading them, "faster" still isn't the same thing as "more powerful".

I knew when I said the S197 Coyote is faster, people would get offended. It's a fact. Doesn't mean much, but it's true.

Only person I see having trouble with it is you, since the S197 Coyote is less powerful than the slower years of S550.

I correlate a powerful car with a faster car, not necessarily a bigger engine. If a Mazda RX7 beat a Mustang several times down the 1/4 mile, the RX7 is the faster, more powerful car. End of story.

Your correlation is too simplistic to have much real use. I hope you let it evolve some . . . right now it's as likely to be misleading or flat-out wrong as not.


Norm

 

[Ebm]

I'm not so sure. Corvettes have tons of aluminum, carbon fiber, and magnesium, and they start at $56K. Mustangs reach to that price level too.

If more manufacturers start using the same materials, production costs can be cut significantly.

More manufacturers start using it in sports cars, all their cars? What are we talking? There's a nice little hop in cash from all the Corvette trims. If the base model Corvette uses carbon fiber and aluminum, it can't be much. Also, the Corvette isn't a 4-seater like the Mustang, even if the seats can't be used by most. Those lack of seats save weight as well.

Doesn't matter how many magazine or online articles I might have read, or what I took away from reading them, "faster" still isn't the same thing as "more powerful".



Only person I see having trouble with it is you, since the S197 Coyote is less powerful than the slower years of S550.



Your correlation is too simplistic to have much real use. I hope you let it evolve some . . . right now it's as likely to be misleading or flat-out wrong as not.


Norm

Norm, I've been flat out wrong before, so this wouldn't be the first time as I'm only human. I've also got a screw loose "up there" with no way to tighten it.

Hopefully we can still be friends Norm. You are the resident automotive guru around here. Probably one of the smartest, most experienced, people on this forum.

 

[nastang87xx]

There's a nice little hop in cash from all the Corvette trims. If the base model Corvette uses carbon fiber and aluminum, it can't be much.

The entire frame is aluminum so is the hood and I believe the fenders as well. There isn't a lot of carbon fiber used unless optioned in. The Z06 and the ZR1 use more carbon.

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