Stock Rod Limit

[Herr_Poopschitz]

Are you looking for work? :lol: Me and you would get along just fine.

Since cylinder pressure increases w/ rpm, to a point at least, why not tune for a bit more torque at the bottom end, then taper it off and hold steady to redline?

Instead it seems that rules of thumb are certain limits (400 ftlb) throughout the revs, or actually the opposite...increasing torque slowly as revs climb. Doesn't this mean there is potential not being exploited, all while remaining safe?

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[MAPerformance]

Since cylinder pressure increases w/ rpm, to a point at least, why not tune for a bit more torque at the bottom end, then taper it off and hold steady to redline?

Instead it seems that rules of thumb are certain limits (400 ftlb) throughout the revs, or actually the opposite...increasing torque slowly as revs climb. Doesn't this mean there is potential not being exploited, all while remaining safe?

Unfortunately the turbo doesn't have enough CFM to gradually bring on torque throughout the powerband. How you deliver the torque down low will help in bringing torque up but once you get to about 3500-4000rpms it is going to drop no matter what. Turbo combined with a cylinder head that flows less than 160cfm is why torque delivery window is very limited.

 

[BGolden]

Isn't 400tq right about where the rods in the Mazdaspeed 3 engines tend to give out too?

yes

 

[DanFish]

Adam what would you recommend to have a fully built engine to make the most power? I'm thinking rods, pistons, crankshaft, head studs, and well that's all I can think of. Do you think I would have to bore out the head or something?

 

[MAPerformance]

Adam what would you recommend to have a fully built engine to make the most power? I'm thinking rods, pistons, crankshaft, head studs, and well that's all I can think of. Do you think I would have to bore out the head or something?

I would definitely port the head, we just got a stock head back from flow testing and it flows under 150cfm which is terrible. There is a lot of power left on the table inside the head itself. You stated you want to make "The most power," if that is the case you would want to be sleeved, rods, pistons, pinned crank, head studs, OEM head gasket is fine, and if a certain company comes out with the cams before then, those as well!

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

I would definitely port the head, we just got a stock head back from flow testing and it flows under 150cfm which is terrible. There is a lot of power left on the table inside the head itself. You stated you want to make "The most power," if that is the case you would want to be sleeved, rods, pistons, pinned crank, head studs, OEM head gasket is fine, and if a certain company comes out with the cams before then, those as well!

At 28"?!? How does the engine run?!?!

What kinda lift are they tested to? When it back up?

 

[mtpavelka]

I'm not worried about the stock rods.

I'd be happy for a while with a stock block, m"A"p turbo kit & a ported head that would allow for 400 to 450 HP/TQ to red line. That would be fun to put miles on until the point I could justify / save money for a built motor. All of which would be building a strong foundation for a built motor and bigger power any ways. I think the stock motor will handle 450 TQ. Just my opinion. I'd be willing to push my car that far.

 

[juammedina]

yes

and the same goes for EVO's and STi's. 400 wtq is the limit for the stock rods but you can run way more hp. 500whp and 400wtq sounds nice

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

This instance is exactly why we have already gone out and developed a ton of insurance parts! Mind you, we are not just cranking up the boost and seeing what happens! The stock parts although they are far stronger than what you would expect from a little 2.3L powerplant. They are FAAARRRR from bulletproof!
We have engineered our own:

Forged Piston featuring a heavy pin wall, stainless rings and a notched and domed design to take full advantage of the force induction DI design.

• -Forged 2618 Alloy
• -.Top Ringland .320 Down (.225 stock)
• -.Skirt Thickness .155 (.085 stock)
• - Increased Skirt Strut Support Thickness
• - Lower Skirt Reinforcement Band
• - 4 Valve Reliefs
• - Coated Crown & Skirts
• - Designed to Support +30#s Boost and Over 800 HP

Forged thicker 4340 I-Beam connecting rod that features an increased big end bore strength with ARP2000 fasteners.

High strength cast iron sleeve.

We are also in the process of engineering our own billet deck brace that is going to significantly increase bore and strength preventing gasket blowout. All while retaining the factory coolant paths.

An exclusive head stud kit that is capable of far greater clamping forces than the stock bolts.

An exclusive main stud kit that are not just stronger than the stock bolts, but they also fit under the OEM girdle.

 

[dragonacc]

This instance is exactly why we have already gone out and developed a ton of insurance parts! Mind you, we are not just cranking up the boost and seeing what happens! The stock parts although they are far stronger than what you would expect from a little 2.3L powerplant. They are FAAARRRR from bulletproof!
We have engineered our own:

Forged Piston featuring a heavy pin wall, stainless rings and a notched and domed design to take full advantage of the force induction DI design.

• -Forged 2618 Alloy
• -.Top Ringland .320 Down (.225 stock)
• -.Skirt Thickness .155 (.085 stock)
• - Increased Skirt Strut Support Thickness
• - Lower Skirt Reinforcement Band
• - 4 Valve Reliefs
• - Coated Crown & Skirts
• - Designed to Support +30#s Boost and Over 800 HP

Forged thicker 4340 I-Beam connecting rod that features an increased big end bore strength with ARP2000 fasteners.

High strength cast iron sleeve.

We are also in the process of engineering our own billet deck brace that is going to significantly increase bore and strength preventing gasket blowout. All while retaining the factory coolant paths.

An exclusive head stud kit that is capable of far greater clamping forces than the stock bolts.

An exclusive main stud kit that are not just stronger than the stock bolts, but they also fit under the OEM girdle.

Great, so how about that stock rod limit...?

 

[BGolden]

This instance is exactly why we have already gone out and developed a ton of insurance parts! Mind you, we are not just cranking up the boost and seeing what happens! The stock parts although they are far stronger than what you would expect from a little 2.3L powerplant. They are FAAARRRR from bulletproof!
We have engineered our own:

Forged Piston featuring a heavy pin wall, stainless rings and a notched and domed design to take full advantage of the force induction DI design.

• -Forged 2618 Alloy
• -.Top Ringland .320 Down (.225 stock)
• -.Skirt Thickness .155 (.085 stock)
• - Increased Skirt Strut Support Thickness
• - Lower Skirt Reinforcement Band
• - 4 Valve Reliefs
• - Coated Crown & Skirts
• - Designed to Support +30#s Boost and Over 800 HP

Forged thicker 4340 I-Beam connecting rod that features an increased big end bore strength with ARP2000 fasteners.

High strength cast iron sleeve.

We are also in the process of engineering our own billet deck brace that is going to significantly increase bore and strength preventing gasket blowout. All while retaining the factory coolant paths.

An exclusive head stud kit that is capable of far greater clamping forces than the stock bolts.

An exclusive main stud kit that are not just stronger than the stock bolts, but they also fit under the OEM girdle.

This thread is not a sale pitch thread. I have asked that multiple times, and I'll ask it again. Either share info on where Livernois believes the stock rod limit is or technical aspects that are helpful to the thread. There are other threads for sale jargon. I busted Adams balls about it a page back, so its only fair I do the same here.

Great, so how about that stock rod limit...?

Thank you!

 

[BGolden]

I'm not worried about the stock rods.

I'd be happy for a while with a stock block, m"A"p turbo kit & a ported head that would allow for 400 to 450 HP/TQ to red line. That would be fun to put miles on until the point I could justify / save money for a built motor. All of which would be building a strong foundation for a built motor and bigger power any ways. I think the stock motor will handle 450 TQ. Just my opinion. I'd be willing to push my car that far.

My hat is off to you if you go there as its a ton of fun, but I personally do not think the rods will stand the test of time at 450 trq at the wheels.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

That apparently depends upon your tuning, because we made more power on our completely stock block than Golden did without failure. We would not push the stock components any further than we did. So, if you are going to hold us to the fire and pick a number...we would not push the stock internals to 350whp/425wtq. We safely made 327/427, but we would not recommend anyone daily drive a tune like that! For a driver 300/400 is probably the limit. The 2.3 is not a variant of the FoST's 2.0L. It is not fair nor accurate to compare them.

 

[Livernois Motorsports]

This thread is not a sale pitch thread. I have asked that multiple times, and I'll ask it again. Either share info on where Livernois believes the stock rod limit is or technical aspects that are helpful to the thread. There are other threads for sale jargon. I busted Adams balls about it a page back, so its only fair I do the same here.

You can say whatever you like. But, would you rather a short answer with numbers or would you like the technical answer as to why there are upgrades? I didn't mention anything about pricing or anything.

 

[Herr_Poopschitz]

You can say whatever you like. But, would you rather a short answer with numbers or would you like the technical answer as to why there are upgrades? I didn't mention anything about pricing or anything.

Personally, I'd like technical discussion of where the numbers you came up w/ come from. The big question is how far the stock stuff will go...w/ a stock turbo, and even a bigger one. No one is questioning availability of aftermarket parts.

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