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Soler Engineering Throttle body

GTthree50

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Sorry guys but I put this up on the page dedicated to this before I realized it's over on the S550 side. For any who may not know Soler offered to give throttle bodies to 4 testers in exchange for impressions, feedback and experiences. So I'd like to share that here as well since it directly applies.


Let me start off this by saying Happy New Year to the whole Shelby/Mustang community. Secondly I want to express a huge thank you to Mike and the group at Soler Engineering for allowing me to participate in this trial. My car is a daily and does not see track time so I hope this provides insight for anyone who may be interested and uses their car similarly of which I know from reading many threads that there are many of you.

Installation was very easy, maybe 10 minutes and completely issue free. It’s so clear that this piece is very well made, the quality is evident.

This was the first drive and I ran it in normal mode the whole time.

Started just like normal and idles steady and smooth.

Pulling out of the garage it was evident that throttle tip in was smoother than stock.

Part throttle mid range power is noticeably improved.

Getting back on the throttle after a shift is much smoother as I had a less than smooth response, especially noticeable at part throttle. Now, at least on this first drive appears to be gone.

There is a bit of extra induction sound at full throttle in 6th. But the pull is definitely stronger.

At low speeds, say 30mph a pull in 3rd is obviously stronger.

Power from off idle to redline through the gears is impressive, feeling more like Sport mode but stronger. Enough so that the tires are scrabbling for traction all the way through second gear.

Total driveability is not a noticeable difference from stock. It’s very impressive in that more power is clearly being made, delivered smoother and without any perceptible drawbacks.

More entries to follow. I need to try out this in each drive mode and share what I learn. As well as how it behaves on a very cold engine after being parked outside all day while at work.

Per the information on Soler’s website it does indeed seem to improve driveability and response similar to what is promised by some of the throttle controllers available for our cars. I like this solution so much better as it not only performs as advertised but no add-on electronics or tune are needed.
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honeybadger

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I have one of these to test as well. I'll hold my feedback for when we get back from the dyno and track time. However, a local buddy has mine on his car until my track day and he echoes your thoughts. He also felt that the car responded a bit differently to heel/toe downshifting. He felt is actually responded a bit slower, but that it was more predictable and easier to get right. This sort of contradicts the rest of the feedback, but I haven't driven it yet to verify. Have you noticed anything similar?
 
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GTthree50

GTthree50

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I have one of these to test as well. I'll hold my feedback for when we get back from the dyno and track time. However, a local buddy has mine on his car until my track day and he echoes your thoughts. He also felt that the car responded a bit differently to heel/toe downshifting. He felt is actually responded a bit slower, but that it was more predictable and easier to get right. This sort of contradicts the rest of the feedback, but I haven't driven it yet to verify. Have you noticed anything similar?
Heel toe was not needed too much on the shirt 30 minute run I went on. I played with it a bit but I have noticed that how it works is directly related to the particular pair of shoes I’m wearing so I will have to focus on that on subsequent drives to get a clear idea. Considering how much nicer response and feedback are it would seem odd if rev matching were more challenging but I guess that’s why we are testing. So far though I’m very pleased. The car runs very hard. Feels like it’s just stronger all throughout the rev range. More to follow.
 

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Have you put the car on a dyno before or planning to after? I'm concerned about placebo effect since in the past any modifications in front of the intake manifold have had minimal effect on the cars.
 
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GTthree50

GTthree50

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Have you put the car on a dyno before or planning to after? I'm concerned about placebo effect since in the past any modifications in front of the intake manifold have had minimal effect on the cars.
No, no dyno time prior nor will there be. I discount placebo effect as I had no expectation for anything. Specific things I was looking for were definitely addressed by their absence and the increase in power, particularly due to the tires not being able to get traction for myself is very telling that more power is being made. Keep in mind that I am doing this from the daily driven street car perspective. Curiously you say " in the past any modifications in front of the intake manifold have had minimal effect" , can you be more specific? I have read through the many threads on cold air intakes and would agree that they do effectively nothing, but a big bore throttle body is something else entirely.
 
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guzie

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No, no dyne time prior nor will there be. I discount placebo effect as I had no expectation for anything. Specific things I was looking for were definitely addressed by their absence and the increase in power, particularly due to the tires not being able to get traction for myself is very telling that more power is being made. Keep in mind that I am doing this from the daily driven street car perspective. Curiously you say " in the past any modifications in front of the intake manifold have had minimal effect" , can you be more specific? I have read through the many threads on cold air intakes and would agree that they do effectively nothing, but a big bore throttle body is something else entirely.
Without an actual before/ after dyno your power comments are just butt dyno feel and very subjective. I would be very cautious on any power gain claims, especially without any tuning for it. It as of right now is all placebo snake oil.
 

guzie

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I see it’s the same body and not a bigger bore. They are just doing some alterations/ porting of an OEM 87mm unit.

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It looks killer! I can’t imagine there not being an improvement over the factory tb; how much is unknown and whether a tune or no tune would yield the best results.
 
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GTthree50

GTthree50

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Without an actual before/ after dyno your power comments are just butt dyno feel and very subjective. I would be very cautious on any power gain claims, especially without any tuning for it. It as of right now is all placebo snake oil.
Have you put the car on a dyno before or planning to after? I'm concerned about placebo effect since in the past any modifications in front of the intake manifold have had minimal effect on the cars.
OK, you're both skeptical. Noted.
 

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Understanding Transient Acceleration can be challenging. TB's modded correctly can achieve a higher TA rate without a corresponding gain in HP.
 
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This is going to be interesting. The value they offer is smoother air flow through the throttle at various angles including wide open. That in itself won't change the power production of the engine. If the smoothed and polished TB allows more air at full throttle, then that will, in the same way that a larger TB would.

The question is, how will the ECU respond to the buffed TB? Their webpage shows a lot of GM products they build TB's for, and as far as I know, the GM ECU's work slightly differently than the Ford 2011 and later ECU's. Earlier GM ECU's used a "manifold absolute pressure" ("MAP") sensor to monitor the air pressure inside the intake manifold behind the throttle. If intake airflow increases, then MAP increases, and the ECU pushes more fuel to keep up with the increased airflow. I don't know if GM has abandoned this approach or not. Ford ECU's don't do it this way, though.

In the Ford Coyote (and later) ECU's, the intake manifold pressure is estimated by a handful of tables that translate the physical characteristics of the throttle body into an estimate of MAP at various airflows measured by the MAF. There's no MAP sensor. Changing the physical TB will invalidate the values in the tables - they were determined in the original calibration of the factory engine and TB. These tables are used by the ECU to get the fueling right and to guess how far to open the throttle when the driver changes the pedal position.

Now, I'm certainly not saying it won't work. If the changes are within the "error band" built into the ECU calibration, then the ECU will compensate and nothing unusual will happen. Changes in the airflow at various throttle angles can't produce more power - the ECU matches power production (by controlling total airflow at all times) with the gas pedal position. That's its mission in life. So, if you alter the TB to produce more airflow at a particular throttle opening, the ECU just closes it a bit to get the airflow back where it belongs. And all these adjustments are computed in the ECU up to two full revolutions of the engine ahead of the current moment. The ECU has a graduate degree in prediction, and it's pretty darn good at it.

Where there might be a benefit is at WOT. If there's more airflow at WOT, there's more power and the ECU is just as happy with that situation as the driver is. As I said at the start, this is going to be interesting.
 
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GTthree50

GTthree50

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I was very curious how the change would if any affect cold start after sitting outside all day. Today was a cold rainy day so that was even better. While stock there could sometimes be some stumbling and surging depending on throttle opening. All that was ever needed to eliminate that was to clutch in and allow the ecu to smooth it out. That did not happen today, noticeably smoother. Not much else to add for today since the roads were wet but still there is no question the engine feels more powerful as well as smoother.
 
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GTthree50

GTthree50

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Short 15 minute ride home from work today all in Sport mode. At least the roads were dry. The car runs so strong. This reinforces what I've felt so far, very strong right off idle to redline. Power is smoother (sport mode wasn't as smooth and linear originally) than stock but yet has a very energetic pull. Still looking for negatives but have not found any yet. This reminds me of my younger days modding VW's with Weber and Neuspeed TB's. This is a much nicer made part than those and I have no problem suggesting it to friends. Already have one buddy with a Bullitt that is interested in one. I looking forward to more drive time with this, it feels great.
 
 




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