SCCA ESP Thread

[Drakoni]

I would do the shocks/struts LONG BEFORE springs. The stock dampers suck for autocross use and adding more spring rate is only going to make that worse...

ok I will hold off getting springs until i can afford some yellows to go with them.

Nick

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[boardkat]

boardkat,

I have read through this whole thread and the information here is tremendous. Thanks for sharing your findings and ESP setup.

I have been autocrossing now for about 10 years mostly with Volkswagen's, and a subaru for a year. Never were these cars prepared to be competitive. Maybe a set of 200 autox tires and some lowering springs/koni's. I now have a 2015 gt pp and would like to pick your brain.

I want to set the car up for CAM-C ,I picked up a set of apex 18x10 wheels and a set of 285 200tw tires. For financial reasons I can't set the car up out of the box so I'll have to do it in stages and generally on a budget. Also I want to make decisions suspension wise that will positively affect handling from an autox prospective bust still have it as my daily driver. My next mod now would be springs to lower the car and possible a sway bar. Struts will be next year and I will most likely go koni yellow.

What would you recommend for off the shelf springs? I was looking at steeda's linear springs that drop the car 1 inch. Should I run any different sway bar front or rear?

Thanks for your time and input.

Nick

np, it's been quite a learning experience for me getting this car built and setup, and i'm happy to share.

as others alluded to, you don't want to attack spring before shock on this car. i had the (mis)fortune of running eibach lowering springs for a few months until my MCS were ready; talk about an exercise in frustration and futility! there's no doubt that this car needs spring, but stiffening the car only exacerbates the shock problem - they sorely lack the needed rebound, especially in the rear.

that said, when you do get a set of shocks, and if you're planning to go to CAM-C, get a proper set of coilovers (with 2.5"/60mm springs). you need a lot of space to fit a wide wheel/tire up front, and you're not going to get that under the stock fenders if you're using OEM-like springs. also, NONE of the springs currently being marketed for the mustang are stiff enough. like, by a long shot. don't even bother - 800-900lbs springs may "sound" like a lot of spring, but it really isn't when you're dealing with a motion ratio of less than 0.50. there'll be spring collars available in the near future to reuse the existing OEM mounting point, but you should also consider a full coilover - caveat emptor, the metal's pretty thin where the rear upper shock mount lives, and is single shear. i'd expect there to be aftermarket options to distribute the load better in the near future (and i think ridetech has already engineered a solution for their own shocks).

 

[Drakoni]

Thanks for the awesome information. I'll go this route down the road. Gonna stick with the wheels and tires for now. I also think a good alignment would be helpful, what you you recommend and sold I pickup any parts for added adjustment.

Thanks so much for your insight and help!

Nick

 

[boardkat]

cheapest option for more camber is to slot your upper strut holes - but you can only grind so much (FSM specs 2mm) before you compromise the integrity of the assembly, and your negative camber gain will be the least (expect no more than -2.5 with stock ride height, most likely less). next cheapest are cam bolts. however, you'll tip your wheels in enough to contact the strut body if you're running a wide enough wheel/tire, necessitating studs and spacers (and a wider front track) - i was able to get about -3.5 with a 19x9/295 setup i had leftover from my previous car while waiting for my wheels/plates/struts, but it was damn close. no chance fitting my 18x11/315 combo, and i'm guessing even an 18x10/285 would limit the amount of camber you could run to be less than ideal (you want a LOT on this chassis - camber loss under load with struts on heavy cars is immense). best (but more expensive) solution is to run camber plates - i think the only option you can pair with the stock shocks right now are the ones maximum motorsports is making - vorshlag plates (the ones i have) are only spec'd to work with MCS/2.5" springs at the moment (but i'm sure jason - their lead tech - will jump in here and correct me if i'm mistaken).

 

[jrl]

cheapest option for more camber is to slot your upper strut holes - but you can only grind so much (FSM specs 2mm) before you compromise the integrity of the assembly, and your negative camber gain will be the least (expect no more than -2.5 with stock ride height, most likely less). next cheapest are cam bolts. however, you'll tip your wheels in enough to contact the strut body if you're running a wide enough wheel/tire, necessitating studs and spacers (and a wider front track) - i was able to get about -3.5 with a 19x9/295 setup i had leftover from my previous car while waiting for my wheels/plates/struts, but it was damn close. no chance fitting my 18x11/315 combo, and i'm guessing even an 18x10/285 would limit the amount of camber you could run to be less than ideal (you want a LOT on this chassis - camber loss under load with struts on heavy cars is immense). best (but more expensive) solution is to run camber plates - i think the only option you can pair with the stock shocks right now are the ones maximum motorsports is making - vorshlag plates (the ones i have) are only spec'd to work with MCS/2.5" springs at the moment (but i'm sure jason - their lead tech - will jump in here and correct me if i'm mistaken).

So, would 18x10 wheels + 285 or 295 tires w/ MM Camber plates allow clearance and enough camber to make the car work well?

 

[boardkat]

So, would 18x10 wheels + 285 or 295 tires w/ MM Camber plates allow clearance and enough camber to make the car work well?

assuming you choose a wheel with a proper offset (+40ish), or are willing to run studs/spacers, yes. look up budwise on this forum, i think he runs a square 18x10 setup without spacers, i just can't recall if it's +40 or +43 and 285 or 295 tires. fwiw, i just bought a new DD setup - 19x10 +48 (i leave my 1.5" adapters on up front so the effective offset is +10 and yes, they'll poke, but i'm cutting my fenders anyway) w/ 285/35r19 bridgestone re-71r. i'd most likely run 1/4" or 10mm spacer up front to get these to fit otherwise. with camber plates, the wheel/tire and strut move as one, so increasing negative camber has no impact on clearance - you're only limited by the range built into the plate, or the strut tower clearance hole.

 

[jrl]

assuming you choose a wheel with a proper offset (+40ish), or are willing to run studs/spacers, yes. look up budwise on this forum, i think he runs a square 18x10 setup without spacers, i just can't recall if it's +40 or +43 and 285 or 295 tires. fwiw, i just bought a new DD setup - 19x10 +48 (i leave my 1.5" adapters on up front so the effective offset is +10 and yes, they'll poke, but i'm cutting my fenders anyway) w/ 285/35r19 bridgestone re-71r. i'd most likely run 1/4" or 10mm spacer up front to get these to fit otherwise. with camber plates, the wheel/tire and strut move as one, so increasing negative camber has no impact on clearance - you're only limited by the range built into the plate, or the strut tower clearance hole.

So, what would be the range of offset that would work +37-43?

Thanks Boardkat, great info

 

[Drakoni]

cheapest option for more camber is to slot your upper strut holes - but you can only grind so much (FSM specs 2mm) before you compromise the integrity of the assembly, and your negative camber gain will be the least (expect no more than -2.5 with stock ride height, most likely less). next cheapest are cam bolts. however, you'll tip your wheels in enough to contact the strut body if you're running a wide enough wheel/tire, necessitating studs and spacers (and a wider front track) - i was able to get about -3.5 with a 19x9/295 setup i had leftover from my previous car while waiting for my wheels/plates/struts, but it was damn close. no chance fitting my 18x11/315 combo, and i'm guessing even an 18x10/285 would limit the amount of camber you could run to be less than ideal (you want a LOT on this chassis - camber loss under load with struts on heavy cars is immense). best (but more expensive) solution is to run camber plates - i think the only option you can pair with the stock shocks right now are the ones maximum motorsports is making - vorshlag plates (the ones i have) are only spec'd to work with MCS/2.5" springs at the moment (but i'm sure jason - their lead tech - will jump in here and correct me if i'm mistaken).

Thanks for the details, I have no issues running some camber bolts or plates which I will look into. What would you recommend for rear camber/toe setup.

These are the wheels im going with.

http://www.apexraceparts.com/apex-p...T43-APEX-EC-7-Mustang-Wheel.html#.VgOQTxFViko

Nick

 

[Budwise]

Yes sir, 19X10 +40 on all 4 corners. No spacers or extended studs needed, bolts right up perfectly. Last I heard from Vorshlag, 18X10 will be very tight and probably wont clear the PP calipers for most barrel designs.

http://www.coh2.org/file/7639/cresson1.JPG
http://www.coh2.org/file/7640/cresson2.JPG

 

[Sock]

Yes sir, 19X10 +40 on all 4 corners. No spacers or extended studs needed, bolts right up perfectly. Last I heard from Vorshlag, 18X10 will be very tight and probably wont clear the PP calipers for most barrel designs.

http://www.coh2.org/file/7639/cresson1.JPG
http://www.coh2.org/file/7640/cresson2.JPG

18x11 all four corners with 15" PP brakes. No rub, no spacer.

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[ABQautoxer]

How much room is there if the wheel was 2" narrower as in an 18x9, ET38 offset on the CF5? I can't figure out if it will work and its a $300+ experiment to find out.

 

[boardkat]

keep in mind that the setup aaron is running isn't square w.r.t. offset like me (since i wanted to be able to rotate F/R) - and he's running a narrower 315 rt-615k tire. in fact, with the same effective offset (20mm spacer up front for me), it wasn't even close when i tried to fit my 18x11 CF5/315 A7 and rival s with the same strut setup (MCS TT2) - needed 30mm and that gave me about 1.5mm of space to the strut. also, since the vorshlag plates don't let you max camber without clearancing the strut tower hole, i had to add spacers to drop the piston below it - requiring my spring perch to drop too. and since a 5" spring doesn't give you enough travel before binding, i had to stick with the 6" spring, and add even more spacer. i'm using 1.5" now, and i get some rub as evidenced by remnants of hoosier rubber on the perch

tom, i ran a 19x9 (+36)/295 A6 setup on stock shocks with camber bolts maxed (-3.5) and no rub. so an 18x9 (+38)/285 RE71R setup and -2.5 with slotted struts should fit fine with loads of room

 

[ABQautoxer]

I'm not worried about the tire rubbing so much as the 18x9 barrel/spokes on ET38 offset not clearing the PP brembos to be FS legal. No one is dumb enough to be running this yet that I can find so I'm thinking of blazing that trail.

 

[boardkat]

I'm not worried about the tire rubbing so much as the 18x9 barrel/spokes on ET38 offset not clearing the PP brembos to be FS legal. No one is dumb enough to be running this yet that I can find so I'm thinking of blazing that trail.

ahhh i gotcha. the short tire + 3rd gear plan. even worse is that if you order just 1, it'll probably take 2 months before you get it. and then another 2 to order the remaining 3 if it does! better get started now

 

[ABQautoxer]

ahhh i gotcha. the short tire + 3rd gear plan. even worse is that if you order just 1, it'll probably take 2 months before you get it. and then another 2 to order the remaining 3 if it does! better get started now

Dennis has played this game before, thus my posts now.

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