S550 underwelming...

[Zinc03svt]

Yes but if you were in 1991 again and given the choice of driving the 91LX or waiting 27 years for the better 2018 - what would you do?


You would wait for the 2018 (no you wouldn’t...).

Huh...? I guess we can only drive what is available in the time period we are in. Today we can actually own and drive all of them being in the future from 91. That said, I will take the 18 GT because I see a little bit of all generations adding too and improving the product. 11 second rwd on oem street tire (w/ pp) either stock or w/ tune only is very impressive to me. Plus it handles better than all of the previous cars. Win win for me.

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[Fatguy]

Huh...? I guess we can only drive what is available in the time period we are in. Today we can actually own and drive all of them being in the future from 91. That said, I will take the 18 GT because I see a little bit of all generations adding too and improving the product. 11 second rwd on oem street tire (w/ pp) either stock or w/ tune only is very impressive to me. Plus it handles better than all of the previous cars. Win win for me.

Well unless your get to drive a 100 point car from back in the day you will always be comparing a modern new car to a used 30 year old car. And that is the impression most young guys have of older cars. As from that era I know what they were like new as well as the cars today. So maybe I know something.


Forget the engine stats as they lied downward in those days. Even a stock 27 year old 5.0 puts out at least 200 horsepower at the wheel which is more at the crank than Ford advertised. It was closer to 286 and the car was in the 14s stock. Ford illegally used a less restrictive exhaust than the one stated to help with the performance of the car which they had to recall - volunteerally.




Plus they were faster back then due to the times. No red light cameras, nobody recording anything. If a cop didn’t catch you you got away with it. You could drive the car to its limits without going to Mexico. Is a car you can drive faster due to less risk for your driving license a better proposition than more modern and faster cars with nannies, gps and video surveillance and a black box recording engine metrics that could be used against you. Think about it...

 

[Norm Peterson]

The BRZ with a small amount of boost is a riot. A friend has one on 7 lbs and it's exactly what the car should've been: completely on rails handling, perfect driving position and controls, but enough poke to be exciting too. That car needs somewhere between 250-270 hp and 220-250 ft lbs from the showroom and it'd be one of the best cars you can buy if you like driving. Light boost gets it there, and it'd be worth a $4-6k cost hit to get it with a warranty.

I really think the BRZ would be even better if you could get one fitted with Subaru's 3.6L H6.


Norm

 

[Zinc03svt]

Well unless your get to drive a 100 point car from back in the day you will always be comparing a modern new car to a used 30 year old car. And that is the impression most young guys have of older cars. As from that era I know what they were like new as well as the cars today. So maybe I know something.


Forget the engine stats as they lied downward in those days. Even a stock 27 year old 5.0 puts out at least 200 horsepower at the wheel which is more at the crank than Ford advertised. It was closer to 286 and the car was in the 14s stock. Ford illegally used a less restrictive exhaust than the one stated to help with the performance of the car which they had to recall - volunteerally.




Plus they were faster back then due to the times. No red light cameras, nobody recording anything. If a cop didn’t catch you you got away with it. You could drive the car to its limits without going to Mexico. Is a car you can drive faster due to less risk for your driving license a better proposition than more modern and faster cars with nannies, gps and video surveillance and a black box recording engine metrics that could be used against you. Think about it...

Nothing to think about. That is just YOUR perspective. Mine is obviously different. I live in an area I can drive the wheels off my car the way I want to drive it. The 18 GT a10 makes more power and puts it down better than any Mustang GT in history bone stock. It is what it is...

 

[NoVaGT]

Plus they were faster back then due to the times. No red light cameras, nobody recording anything. If a cop didn’t catch you you got away with it. You could drive the car to its limits without going to Mexico...

I don't know about Canada, but there's almost the entire country here where we can do that. I'll be enjoying my car rather briskly this weekend, up in the mountains. No cameras, GPS, black boxes, or cops.

 

[Norm Peterson]

As one of the younger guys on this forum, I’ll say this. If the s550 never came out with irs, refinement, and increased interior quality, I would never have bought the car.

IRS I get (but only if it's done right). Mediocrity here isn't going to cut it. But do you really need higher levels of 'refinement' or perceived interior quality to enjoy the driving part? If so, why? Kind of a serious question, since a car that tries to be everything to everybody can't be focused toward anybody in particular unless they're of an 'I want it all' mindset.


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

Huh...? I guess we can only drive what is available in the time period we are in.

Yes, and no. Yes, if you're only looking forward for your improvements.

And that's where "improving the product" becomes strictly an individual assessment. I don't have this guy's fab skills, but his direction with a '66 is very close to what I'd do if I did (and had the uninterrupted time and a better place to do it in). Even though it's primarily a road course car, it runs in the 10's as shown . . . without a power adder of any kind. I suspect it, and a number of other Pro-Touring cars would give even the S550 GT350's fits around most road courses.

Yes, I'd drive something like that on the street.


Norm

 

[accel]

I really think the BRZ would be even better if you could get one fitted with Subaru's 3.6L H6.


Norm

If they stuffed engine in the rear, even 4 cyl, I'd have it.

 

[Bladex10]

Some of the most fun i've ever had in a car was with my old 1988 Mustang GT. My biggest gripe with the Mustang and alot of cars really is that they are getting bigger and heavier with each generation it seems. There is no replacing that feeling of a smaller car no matter what. The 79-04 Mustangs were the perfect size. I shit talked FR-S/BRZ's until i drove my friends lightly modded FR-S on some backroads. You get to use every last inch of that cars power and it handles like its on rails because of its size/weight. Im just a tad bit too tall to comfortably own one.

 

[Hack]

Some of the most fun i've ever had in a car was with my old 1988 Mustang GT. My biggest gripe with the Mustang and alot of cars really is that they are getting bigger and heavier with each generation it seems. There is no replacing that feeling of a smaller car no matter what. The 79-04 Mustangs were the perfect size. I shit talked FR-S/BRZ's until i drove my friends lightly modded FR-S on some backroads. You get to use every last inch of that cars power and it handles like its on rails because of its size/weight. Im just a tad bit too tall to comfortably own one.

I agree Mustangs are too big and heavy. Still fun to drive, but if they were smaller they would be better.

I think Fox Mustangs are too big and heavy as well. They really aren't that much smaller.

 

[hlh1]

It's great to have both in the garage. I love my S550 for long trips, but really enjoy the SN95 Hard top Convertible with a Vortech, etc. The old 95 car is a hoot to drive for short trips! The 95 is also the last year for the old 5.0 GT40 motor which has it's own personality.

 

[Freedom]

IRS I get (but only if it's done right). Mediocrity here isn't going to cut it. But do you really need higher levels of 'refinement' or perceived interior quality to enjoy the driving part? If so, why? Kind of a serious question, since a car that tries to be everything to everybody can't be focused toward anybody in particular unless they're of an 'I want it all' mindset.


Norm

Good question, I don't want to write an essay long response so Ill try to condense my rational here.
For pure track driving, yes you can argue perceived interior quality is meaningless. However, I live in California, while its not the most practical due to low ride height, big hood, wide body, I can daily drive my mustang due to mostly dry weather and always above 50F in the day. If you're daily driving, at least for me, comforts and creature amenities are something I want especially if I end up in traffic. This is why the premium package exists, better speakers, sync 3, leather seats, etc. I argue that such amenities don't detract from the track driving, spirited driving aspects at all, since they can be ignored and only add around 50-100 pounds tops due to its drop in replacement nature. Yes, the mustang isn't a pure drivers car, it is a jack of all trades, but I'd argue this is why the car sells well. Look at the challenger, a similar jack of all trades, its ancient but sells well while the purist Camaro, lacks in sales.

Incremental interior quality should be expected though, we can't stay static to the 90s mentality. Everyone has improved interior quality and if you stay behind, you lose out on the majority of the buying market due to lacking features. Imagine having 90s sn95 plastics that are brittle and crack easily under sun exposure, you'd never gain European market share.

Anyways, Im losing focus on the topic but I hope this good enough. Also, a jack of all trade means it cant master everything but it doesn't mean it cant excel at areas most important to the driving experience. The GT350 has the jack of all trades mastered if your focus is on driving experience. Decent s550 interior quality, good road manners, potent track capabilities.

 

[Fatguy]

Some of the most fun i've ever had in a car was with my old 1988 Mustang GT. My biggest gripe with the Mustang and alot of cars really is that they are getting bigger and heavier with each generation it seems. There is no replacing that feeling of a smaller car no matter what. The 79-04 Mustangs were the perfect size. I shit talked FR-S/BRZ's until i drove my friends lightly modded FR-S on some backroads. You get to use every last inch of that cars power and it handles like its on rails because of its size/weight. Im just a tad bit too tall to comfortably own one.

Here is something to think about.

My 1988 Fox body had no options and weighed in at 3150 pounds. This car has 300 pound feet of torque. The 2018 GT weighs in at 3860 pounds with 420 pound feet of torque. Now the Fox has 15” wheels and skinnier tires saving at least 25 pounds per wheel which is equivalent to 300 pounds of non-rotating weight.


See where I’m going with this...


Torque is acceleration and pound for pound the two car’s accelerate at the same pace. So much for the superiority of today’s Mustang. You guys prattle that there is no substitute for cubic inches so why should it be different here. I’m right and you were wrong!

Fatguy = 1

Everyone else = 0

 

[2018OFPP1?2]

See where I’m going with this...

Uh..., No.

A stock '88 mustang is a ~14 second car. A stock '18 mustang is a ~12 second car.

I still love my '92 5.0 lx 'vert, but the '18 blows it away in EVERY respect. Not even in the same universe.

 

[Fatguy]

I agree with you 100%.









But I'm still gonna make fun of you;

Uh..., No.

A stock '88 mustang is a ~14 second car. A stock '18 mustang is a ~12 second car.

I still love my '92 5.0 lx 'vert, but the '18 blows it away in EVERY respect. Not even in the same universe.

It has more top end due to the heads like 22mph top speed. Same for even the V6 which tops out at 157 to the GTs 164 and the LX’s 142. In the real world nobody is racing cars in a quarter mile at the traffic lights so the LX and GT race together. That’s the reality. That top speed is just fiction like my car’s. We are never going to see it as something always appears on the horizon to scuttle it. The fact I can make a convincing case shows how good the old cars were.




One of my two:

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