REVan Evan Mach 1 Street and Track Testing at Willow Springs

[Atlas1]

Life is pain. Life is futile, dust in the wind, it matters not - so I'll put me down for 'negative'.
I was reacting to the "breathless" hope that somehow the A10 was going to equalize or exceed the GT350. It might, we don't know yet. But it struck me as a particularly useless thing to even ponder let alone grasp at.

Oh I agree it is definitely useless. My life will be unaffected whether the Mach 1 beats the gt350 around a track or gets passed by a PP1. It’s just something fun to think about as I pass the time waiting for my car to arrive. there would be some degree in satisfaction though seeing it stay even with a Shelby or anything else considered by many to be superior, after all of the shit talking about it being a parts bin car and overpriced. Let me find some joy where I can damn it! The wait for this thing is causing me sleepless nights!

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[Mikepol2]

...It’s just something fun to think about as I pass the time waiting for my car to arrive. there would be some degree in satisfaction though seeing it stay even with a Shelby or anything else considered by many to be superior, after all of the shit talking about it being a parts bin car and overpriced... The wait for this thing is causing me sleepless nights!

I feel the same way.... wonder how many other cars have an entire thread dedicated to people trying to prove what a waste of money it is (obviously talking about the "why the Mach 1 is a rip off" thread). Normally when a business makes improvements based on past successes it's considered a good thing... take good parts from multiple other cars and put them all together into one package? Absurd!

And +1 on the sleepless nights, hearing other people agonizing and waiting is good therapy.

 

[PaddyPrix]

Did he mention any lap times at WSIR? If not, it's standard useless YouTube clickbait hyperbole garbage until then. For example, let's say he had a blast and did a 1:35, but was 3 seconds slower than a SS 1LE that might be slightly cheaper, especially given our usual dealer markup BS. The GT350 was a monster track car, and that leaves big shoes that I doubt the Mach 1 can fill.

 

[ACMEguy]

I am probably going to get skewered for this but here it goes... I was on my way to purchasing a 350 until I spoke with the authorized Shelby Modification Shop here in Calgary. This shop builds authorized Shelby American cars and does other higher end speed modifications to other cars... Needless to say, once we had determined that I was not going to be using the car on the track it became clear that getting the car into it's power band was not practical on the street. And if the 350 is not in it's power band it feels underpowered (unless you boost it). (Okay, I just pulled out all of the knives from my back!). It was the folks at the speed shop that said the Mach 1 would be a better car for street use and occasional track use simply because the power band is far more useable on the streets and with the compilation of the best parts of the other Shelby models it would make for the best possible 'factory equipped' Mustang... with a latitude for aftermarket mods that would only make it better.

 

[Angrey]

I am probably going to get skewered for this but here it goes... I was on my way to purchasing a 350 until I spoke with the authorized Shelby Modification Shop here in Calgary. This shop builds authorized Shelby American cars and does other higher end speed modifications to other cars... Needless to say, once we had determined that I was not going to be using the car on the track it became clear that getting the car into it's power band was not practical on the street. And if the 350 is not in it's power band it feels underpowered (unless you boost it). (Okay, I just pulled out all of the knives from my back!). It was the folks at the speed shop that said the Mach 1 would be a better car for street use and occasional track use simply because the power band is far more useable on the streets and with the compilation of the best parts of the other Shelby models it would make for the best possible 'factory equipped' Mustang... with a latitude for aftermarket mods that would only make it better.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's been a lingering complaint against the GT350 for some time. Many driver's who just aren't accustomed to driving a high rev motor feel more comfortable in the traditional, big American V-8, hence the sales of the Chrysler boats.

Even the cadence and traditional pace of shifting in the GT350 is different, it has that extra breath at the top that if you're used to banging through gears on a "common" V-8, you tend to short shift.

The 350 owners who enjoy their cars have learned not to baby it. It's meant to live where it breathes.

The GT350 makes plenty of torque, it'll roll the tires right off, but you have to drive it like you mean it.

Some people don't like that or just can't get their brain around revving the motor out in between stop lights or on the way to the grocery store. But THAT is what the car is designed and made to do. So in that sense, a traditional V-8 and lower end torque is more daily driver friendly. The GT350 will pass other cars easily, IF YOU DOWNSHIFT, but there are people who prefer the low rpm lug mash of the gas.

You have to admire the purity of a car that's built more for racing and harsh use.

If someone wants a car that comes close(r) to that but still has more comfortable street manners, then the Mach is obviously the better choice.

But this idea that the GT350 doesn't have torque or it feels underpowered is simply because people are driving it incorrectly. The car has more torque than the terminator from the factory and we never heard anyone complaining about the vaunted 2003-2004 cobras.

So it boils down to two crowds, those that view revving the car out and rowing gears as a nuisance and more work and those that view that as a reward and a driver's experience they absolutely chose the car for.

 

[ACMEguy]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's been a lingering complaint against the GT350 for some time. Many driver's who just aren't accustomed to driving a high rev motor feel more comfortable in the traditional, big American V-8, hence the sales of the Chrysler boats.

Even the cadence and traditional pace of shifting in the GT350 is different, it has that extra breath at the top that if you're used to banging through gears on a "common" V-8, you tend to short shift.

The 350 owners who enjoy their cars have learned not to baby it. It's meant to live where it breathes.

The GT350 makes plenty of torque, it'll roll the tires right off, but you have to drive it like you mean it.

Some people don't like that or just can't get their brain around revving the motor out in between stop lights or on the way to the grocery store. But THAT is what the car is designed and made to do. So in that sense, a traditional V-8 and lower end torque is more daily driver friendly. The GT350 will pass other cars easily, IF YOU DOWNSHIFT, but there are people who prefer the low rpm lug mash of the gas.

You have to admire the purity of a car that's built more for racing and harsh use.

If someone wants a car that comes close(r) to that but still has more comfortable street manners, then the Mach is obviously the better choice.

But this idea that the GT350 doesn't have torque or it feels underpowered is simply because people are driving it incorrectly. The car has more torque than the terminator from the factory and we never heard anyone complaining about the vaunted 2003-2004 cobras.

So it boils down to two crowds, those that view revving the car out and rowing gears as a nuisance and more work and those that view that as a reward and a driver's experience they absolutely chose the car for.

I appreciate your comments, particularly since you own and drive a 350. Believe me when I say I struggled greatly with my decision to purchase the Mach 1 over a 350. Perhaps I overthought it to some extent. I sold my '67 GTA S Code Fastback to make this happen and I had owned that car for 20 years. The best thing about this forum and its members is that since I have joined I have been impressed with everyone's passion and willingness to share information and experience.

 

[Atlas1]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's been a lingering complaint against the GT350 for some time. Many driver's who just aren't accustomed to driving a high rev motor feel more comfortable in the traditional, big American V-8, hence the sales of the Chrysler boats.

Even the cadence and traditional pace of shifting in the GT350 is different, it has that extra breath at the top that if you're used to banging through gears on a "common" V-8, you tend to short shift.

The 350 owners who enjoy their cars have learned not to baby it. It's meant to live where it breathes.

The GT350 makes plenty of torque, it'll roll the tires right off, but you have to drive it like you mean it.

Some people don't like that or just can't get their brain around revving the motor out in between stop lights or on the way to the grocery store. But THAT is what the car is designed and made to do. So in that sense, a traditional V-8 and lower end torque is more daily driver friendly. The GT350 will pass other cars easily, IF YOU DOWNSHIFT, but there are people who prefer the low rpm lug mash of the gas.

You have to admire the purity of a car that's built more for racing and harsh use.

If someone wants a car that comes close(r) to that but still has more comfortable street manners, then the Mach is obviously the better choice.

But this idea that the GT350 doesn't have torque or it feels underpowered is simply because people are driving it incorrectly. The car has more torque than the terminator from the factory and we never heard anyone complaining about the vaunted 2003-2004 cobras.

So it boils down to two crowds, those that view revving the car out and rowing gears as a nuisance and more work and those that view that as a reward and a driver's experience they absolutely chose the car for.

The reason nobody complains about driving the 03/04 cobra ON THE STREET is because it makes power down low, which is where you want it while driving ON THE STREET.

 

[Angrey]

I appreciate your comments, particularly since you own and drive a 350. Believe me when I say I struggled greatly with my decision to purchase the Mach 1 over a 350. Perhaps I overthought it to some extent. I sold my '67 GTA S Code Fastback to make this happen and I had owned that car for 20 years. The best thing about this forum and its members is that since I have joined I have been impressed with everyone's passion and willingness to share information and experience.

Thanks, and no worries. You're not alone. And there's nothing "wrong" with your view or assessment. Just different cars for different folks. The Mach is a great car. Once Ford ditched the garbage MT, adding the tremec to the yote motor now eliminates a big turn off for a lot of drivers (and one of the bigger selling points of the 350).

Admittedly, the Mach is probably an easier "daily" driver. It took me awhile to get used to the idea that highway commutes just involve a lot of shifting. Once I wrapped my brain around it and remembered that's why I bought the car, it's not so bad.

And though I would never exceed the speed limit, a guy I know who looks just like me and has a car just like mine, he cruises at a high rate of speed (where the car wants to be) because honestly, driving 70 mph in a GT350 the car frowns and you and says "really, all this and we're gonna go 75?"

And admittedly, the GT350 is horrible from a standing start. It's a razor thin affair between bog or spin. So "street" driving would be a little better in something with the torque band a little lower (although this can be alleviated with E-85 and rear gears).

At the end of the day, the biggest selling point (to me) of the 350 is the sound of the motor and the exhaust note. I'd buy (and keep) the car just for that. If there's one knock for me personally against the coyote it's the flathead firing order. 302 pushrods sounded great. 4V modulars sounded magical. The new firing order of the coyotes (TO ME PERSONALLY) just sound trashy and redneckish. 99% of the exhaust clips I hear are just loud.

But the great thing about living in the civilized world is we all get an opportunity to pick our own poison. So if the Mach is a better fit for you, knock it out

 

[Strokerswild]

IMO, based on my brief experience with one, for street use the GT350 is geared too tall in the rear end. A 4.09 or 4.56 ring and pinion would be the ticket....

 

[Angrey]

IMO, based on my brief experience with one, for street use the GT350 is geared too tall in the rear end. A 4.09 or 4.56 ring and pinion would be the ticket....

Unless someone chimes in otherwise, with 3.73 (and assuming Ford doesn't alter the 3160 ratios) it's going to be the same for the Mach1.

 

[Mikepol2]

Unless someone chimes in otherwise, with 3.73 (and assuming Ford doesn't alter the 3160 ratios) it's going to be the same for the Mach1.

It’s not the same... the Mach has more usable low end power with the Tremec ratios than with the MT-82 ratios, and you can feel it when you drive it:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/tremec-gear-ratios-vs-speed.155956/#post-3199907

 

[Angrey]

It’s not the same... the Mach has more usable low end power with the Tremec ratios than with the MT-82 ratios, and you can feel it when you drive it:

https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/tremec-gear-ratios-vs-speed.155956/#post-3199907

yeah, except that's not verified anywhere I can find on the interweb. If Ford elected for a new ratio, I can't find it.

It's certainly possible, but would reduce some of the efficiency of using the same spec as the GT350 (even though the 350 is discontinued, Ford still has warranty legacy to fulfill). Everything on the web reads "taken from the GT350" etc.

Where's the legit source that states those gear ratios?

 

[Mikepol2]

yeah, except that's not verified anywhere I can find on the interweb. If Ford elected for a new ratio, I can't find it.

It's certainly possible, but would reduce some of the efficiency of using the same spec as the GT350 (even though the 350 is discontinued, Ford still has warranty legacy to fulfill). Everything on the web reads "taken from the GT350" etc.

Where's the legit source that states those gear ratios?

Geez dude. I don't have the motivation to re-look up where I found them. All I can tell you is, it felt as strong as my PP1 with 4.09's when I drove it, and the numbers, if correct, correlate with the seat of the pants feeling.

 

[shogun32]

yeah, except that's not verified anywhere I can find on the interweb. If Ford elected for a new ratio, I can't find it.

I find this chart to be useful though it doesn't have the 2021 mach1 ratios called out. I see zero reason why Ford (which cheaps out/recycles as much as it can, probably more than it should) would change the internal ratios.
https://www.steeda.com/mustang-manual-transmission-guide#/filter:ss_ymm:Mustang$253E2019

 

[5.2 liters of democracy]

I am probably going to get skewered for this but here it goes... I was on my way to purchasing a 350 until I spoke with the authorized Shelby Modification Shop here in Calgary. This shop builds authorized Shelby American cars and does other higher end speed modifications to other cars... Needless to say, once we had determined that I was not going to be using the car on the track it became clear that getting the car into it's power band was not practical on the street. And if the 350 is not in it's power band it feels underpowered (unless you boost it). (Okay, I just pulled out all of the knives from my back!). It was the folks at the speed shop that said the Mach 1 would be a better car for street use and occasional track use simply because the power band is far more useable on the streets and with the compilation of the best parts of the other Shelby models it would make for the best possible 'factory equipped' Mustang... with a latitude for aftermarket mods that would only make it better.

I hope you're ready to get skewered. I'm going to break this down in bullets. Here we go:

• You're right.

I've also prepared a 25-slide PowerPoint to prove my statement.

Sarcasm aside, I think the Mach 1 is awesome. I can't wait to see one at the track.