Rev matching: opinions?

[NoVaGT]

.......What the Mustang does is what I'd do if I wanted to continue driving at the same speed in a lower gear. I guess the feature is useful for that; if traffic has slowed down a bit, e.g. from 70 to 50 and you're starting to feel like you're in the wrong gear. Easy to shift down a gear and let the rev matching take care of things so you can continue driving at 50 in the lower gear. It seems perfect for that, but less so for downshifting to slow down, unless you like to make a lot of noise while doing it.

Downshifting to accelerate I guess the rev matching won't be felt much as you'd manually increase the rpm to more than the rev matching computer is doing anyway......

This is really confusing.

It doesn't matter why you need to rev-match (slowing down or down-shifting to accelerate), the car always does it perfectly. I can go from 6th to 3rd for hard acceleration, and it matches perfectly. I can down-shift because traffic has slowed, and the car does it perfectly.

What, precisely, is your complaint?

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[TheSnowmanMafia]

I won't go back to a manual without rev matching. It's such a nice feature to have. Perfect downshifts every single time? Yes, please.

 

[Sivi70980]

First of all, I'll point out again as @Dfeeds did, rev matching doesn't activate till you start to put the gear shift into a gate of a gear. I come off a free way and always got 6-4-2 and then slow to a stop with clutch in and move into first and 3ish mph and no revs at all. Rev matching is one of my favorite sounds a car can make and I used to heel-toe my mini all the time.

I also think it's cool that it will auto rev to keep you from stalling 1st gear take offs, as already stated, perfect for bad traffic and pulling into the garage. One thing that took me some getting used to was the rev hang while shifting up. But after a few weeks of calibrating my timing, I do about 98% perfect shifts even when going to Mexico. This is the easiest to operate manual I've ever driven.

To the OP and anyone else not wanting to hear it rev match to first gear, just slow down more before putting it in 1st.

 

[cib24]

Des

First of all, I'll point out again as @Dfeeds did, rev matching doesn't activate till you start to put the gear shift into a gate of a gear. I come off a free way and always got 6-4-2 and then slow to a stop with clutch in and move into first and 3ish mph and no revs at all. Rev matching is one of my favorite sounds a car can make and I used to heel-toe my mini all the time.

I also think it's cool that it will auto rev to keep you from stalling 1st gear take offs, as already stated, perfect for bad traffic and pulling into the garage. One thing that took me some getting used to was the rev hang while shifting up. But after a few weeks of calibrating my timing, I do about 98% perfect shifts even when going to Mexico. This is the easiest to operate manual I've ever driven.

To the OP and anyone else not wanting to hear it rev match to first gear, just slow down more before putting it in 1st.

Can you describe the rev hang on up shifts? I'm sure I have experienced it...maybe?

I do definitely sometimes get lockout preventing me from shifting from 2nd to 3rd when near redline but that's completely unrelated to what you are referring to.

 

[EFI]

and increases rpm by some five hundred or a thousand (at least for now, as I'm still breaking her in), which everyone around the car can hear quite well.

How else is it going to raise the RPM up in anticipation of your downshift if not by revving it? And how is that any different than you blipping the throttle as you mentioned doing in your previous rides?

This is pretty much all a result of a louder exhaust and you can now hear the actual blip/rev. In the end, it's all the same thing whether you hear it or not. Maybe you just need a quieter exhaust so you don't think you sound like a fool?

 

[Sivi70980]

Des

Can you describe the rev hang on up shifts? I'm sure I have experienced it...maybe?

I do definitely sometimes get lockout preventing me from shifting from 2nd to 3rd when near redline but that's completely unrelated to what you are referring to.

When shifting up, say 2nd to 3rd, the RPMs hang out for a second instead of immediately dropping like every other manual car I've driven over the last 20 years. It just requires timing changed on my part for smooth shifting. It's very "go for it" or not, no half assing your shifts when going to Mexico.

 

[Norm Peterson]

What, precisely, is your complaint?

I think he's annoyed that ARM does the job it's supposed to do and won't let him use the clutch to drag the engine revs up during a non-rev-matched downshift.


Norm

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

This is really confusing.

It doesn't matter why you need to rev-match (slowing down or down-shifting to accelerate), the car always does it perfectly. I can go from 6th to 3rd for hard acceleration, and it matches perfectly. I can down-shift because traffic has slowed, and the car does it perfectly.

What, precisely, is your complaint?

On a bike in city traffic, I do a downshift from second gear to first to slow down and there is usually no need to blip the throttle. Instead I just let the clutch slip out smoothly, using the engine to break. This is smooth and pretty silent because you are not breaking hard, just slowing down a bit and slipping the clutch. Usually no need to use the breaks either as long as the speed difference is not huge.

Doing the same on the Mustang at comparable speeds with rev matching enabled, when you shift down from second to first gear, the engine revs up for some tenths of a second before settling down. If I'm downshifting from second to first in order to slow down, I don't want the engine to rev up like that because it means the car will continue at the same speed (rev-matched to the lower gear), rather than slow down. It only starts slowing down once the rev matching is done and the throttle returns to my own control, at which time the rpm will drop since I'm easing of the gas pedal, not pushing it to accelerate.

On the other hand, if I'm downshifting to accelerate, I want blip the throttle hard or harder, as otherwise the bike/car would slow down rather than accelerate.

So it matters a lot whether I'm downshifting to accelerate, or downshifting to slow down.

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

How else is it going to raise the RPM up in anticipation of your downshift if not by revving it? And how is that any different than you blipping the throttle as you mentioned doing in your previous rides?

It's different because when I'm downshifting to slow down a little, I don't need to blip the throttle at all. The downshift will force the RPM up by itself once the lower gear engages, without my or any rev matching computer's help. If I'm downshifting to slow down, there is no need for me to blip the throttle unless the speed difference is big. I can just hold the throttle steady and the bike will slow down in the lower gear.

This is pretty much all a result of a louder exhaust and you can now hear the actual blip/rev. In the end, it's all the same thing whether you hear it or not. Maybe you just need a quieter exhaust so you don't think you sound like a fool?

Sorry, but that's not it. I like the sound of the Mustang, but I don't need the engine rev'ing up while I'm going from second gear to first gear and then to a complete stop as I'm picking up my daughters at school. That rev'ing up for no good reason before stopping is what makes me feel a bit like a fool, not the sound of the exhaust. Rev'ing up a bit as I'm accelerating away from school in a safe manner would be fine, though I'm waiting for my first 1,000 miles to finish (and perhaps an oil change too?), before I'll be doing that.

 

[shogun32]

Right, so you want to drag the engine up to match road speed on a 2-1 downshift to add engine braking.. Turn off rev match then, or better yet get your mind right - use the brakes to slow down (you're dealing with 3800lbs, not 400) or just keep your foot in the clutch till you're down to 5mph and then slip it into first. Putting spikes in your deceleration rate (each time to engage a lower gear) is just bad driving. Each accompanying exhaust burp is "douchey" / rice-racer to anyone observing too.

My engine was done breaking in by 200 miles (rather less actually). Just don't be wailing on it till it's up to temp. Go find a 4-loop interchange. You get a quick succession of part throttle, heavy throttle and closed-throttle decel from high rpm all thrown into a neat package along with decreasing/increasing radius turns going up/down hill. I would spend 15 minutes at a time just doing loops.

 

[EFI]

It's different because when I'm downshifting to slow down a little, I don't need to blip the throttle at all. The downshift will force the RPM up by itself once the lower gear engages, without my or any rev matching computer's help. If I'm downshifting to slow down, there is no need for me to blip the throttle unless the speed difference is big. I can just hold the throttle steady and the bike will slow down in the lower gear.

But that's not really rev matching though, you're literally just forcing the engine to catchup.

What rev-matching truly is is blipping the throttle to raise engine RPM. You might be able to turn it off in a tune if you truly don't like it.

 

[Zrussian13]

I see broken shift forks in the op's future...

 

[Norm Peterson]

On a bike in city traffic, I do a downshift from second gear to first to slow down and there is usually no need to blip the throttle. Instead I just let the clutch slip out smoothly, using the engine to break. This is smooth and pretty silent because you are not breaking hard, just slowing down a bit and slipping the clutch.

I really, really, REALLY can't understand using that technique on a bike, where your balance is also involved. There's just no need to increase the risks involved like that; basically you've just let yourself learn a crappy technique. I used to ride (still carry the 'M' endorsement on my driver's license).

Other than for getting underway from a full stop, slipping the clutch like that is needless and just plain wrong.

Usually no need to use the breaks either as long as the speed difference is not huge.

When the speed differences are not huge, you may not need to be downshifting at all. Don't be afraid to use the brakes to lose small amounts of speed, just brushing them works just fine. Either that or don't wait so late to downshift that you then need more braking than is natural for the lower gear that you selected.

If I'm downshifting from second to first in order to slow down, I don't want the engine to rev up like that because it means the car will continue at the same speed (rev-matched to the lower gear), rather than slow down.

Ford is trying to tell you the same thing that some of us are trying to get across. The problem you're having is not in Ford's ARM calibration (even when you're turned it off).


Norm

 

[Norm Peterson]

It's different because when I'm downshifting to slow down a little, I don't need to blip the throttle at all. The downshift will force the RPM up by itself once the lower gear engages, without my or any rev matching computer's help.

That's exactly the way rank newbies to stick-shift driving start out. But they at least have the excuse of not knowing any better.


Norm

 

[Michael_vroomvroom]

But that's not really rev matching though, you're literally just forcing the engine to catchup.

What rev-matching truly is is blipping the throttle to raise engine RPM. You might be able to turn it off in a tune if you truly don't like it.

Well, there's really no need to rev match at these small speed differences when the aim is to slow down, at least on the bike, and the engine does not have to do much to catch up either. That's why I find it a bit annoying that the car tries to do the rev matching when I'm slowing down like this.

Coming of the highway in fourth or fifth gear on the daily route and downshifting to second or third gear is a bit different and some rev matching is prudent, if not absolutely necessary, depending on one's view of using or not using the engine for breaking. As with cars, there are some differences of opinion regarding this amongst bikers also. Some do not use the brakes much at all, even on the track, but just downshift and slip the clutch before cornering, while others do the full "clutch in, rev match to a larger or smaller extent, downshift, clutch out, break, corner"

The automatic rev match is quite easy to disable on the 2020 model (4-5 clicks through the menus on the wheel), so I'm alternating a bit with having it enabled or disabled from drive to drive now.

Shogun32 had a good point that this is a 3800 pound car, not a 400 pound bike, however. I experimented a bit with downshifting while going down the hill today (I live in a rather mountainous area, with narrow and twisting roads to boot at the start/end of my drive) and with the rev match disabled I did not feel all that much in control, so I quickly stopped doing that. While I'm sure part of that is due to my inexperience, I could really feel the weight of the car while slowing down using the engine, which was quite different from the feel on the bike weighing 1/10th. I think quite possibly I need to change my way of driving to make this a safer and better experience.

For a new driver who's only previous car experiences (sans an automatic Mustang ecoboost rented for a week a couple of years ago) have been an assorted mix of manual/automatic old and boring cars just bought to get me from a to b (thanks God for the Honda fireblade bike so I could at least during the summer feel some power and have some fun) it's certainly educating to read the opinions of people here. Will experiment a bit with things based on what I've read here so far, so thanks all.

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