Replaced Voodoo Engine

unknown internal failure, oil consumption, blown block, damaged valve train etc.


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DrumReaper

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Hmmm... checked my oil on a fuel stop today and 1/8” below the hashed zone. 3500 miles on the odo. Looks like it’s time to add some.
 

Zitrosounds

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Thing is I could mildly understand failures at the Track Attack events. With some of the sounds I heard during the heel toe exercise I was sure I would witness a failure right there. I know some of those cars had to be close to over revving. On the oil pressure, I actually saw oil pressure a tad below 25 psi at idle in the car I was driving.
You can not over rev the engine unless you are down shifting. In the event that where to happen the cars would probably be sideways. Either way, I wen to the track attack last July. At that time the cars where the same since the inception of the program. No new engines, no failures just miles of abuse and smiles per gallon.

I am not worried one bit if the engine fails. I have a warranty, extended bumper to bumper from Ford at that. I have had a GT350 engine with a mechanical failure. The second engine had a casting flaw which led to a crack in the block. My R had 9300 miles and not one hiccup thus far. Shit happens.
 

Comfort

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It’s been 42 days that the dealer has had my 2018 R with a failed motor. They have had the replacement motor now for about 3 weeks and every week I get a call saying sorry but the gaskets are back ordered or the flywheel bolts are back ordered or they sent the wrong bolts and now it will be a few more weeks before these bolts come off back order. Guys losing engines after me are already tracking. Where the hell are these parts coming from. Getting really tired of the BS. I’ve bought 3 new 350’s with two of them being R’s. Two out of 3 have had issues. Yes this is the first engine failure but both experiences working with Ford and their dealers have SUCKED! Just cancelled my Raptor order and won’t be replacing my Platinum 6.7 at years end with another one. Had a loyal Performance Vehicle customer but this experience has me at wits end. Loved the cars and understand mechanical issues but customer service offered is unexceptable. Shame on Ford for such a poor experience.

The one dealership that was great was Gary Yeomans but 500 miles away. Wish I was closer to them!!
 
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Tomster

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You can not over rev the engine unless you are down shifting. In the event that where to happen the cars would probably be sideways. Either way, I wen to the track attack last July. At that time the cars where the same since the inception of the program. No new engines, no failures just miles of abuse and smiles per gallon.

I am not worried one bit if the engine fails. I have a warranty, extended bumper to bumper from Ford at that. I have had a GT350 engine with a mechanical failure. The second engine had a casting flaw which led to a crack in the block. My R had 9300 miles and not one hiccup thus far. Shit happens.
I was surprised to see the track attack cars having only about 5000 miles on them (as of late April 18). They mostly run around the track in third gear only and are warmed up before you take them out. The day isn't even a full track day, what? two 20 min sessions and some lighter duty the rest of the day?


No major problems with the track attack cars with the exception of an oil filter spinning off I believe.


I just spent the weekend up in Michigan and I asked someone I know who did this kind of stuff for Chrysler to see if he could reach out to his Ford counterpart to find out what is going on with these motors. I was given an example of viper motors that had issues would be torn down and rebuilt to preserve a matching number car. It was also mentioned that engineers design cars and then bean counters find places to reduce costs at an acceptable rate of failure. I would like to know what is failing that ford isn't publicly sharing.

Albeit, a lot of the blown motors are caused by the oil filter spinning off, but I am more interested to find out what is causing the others to go. Common problems? Totally separate? I (we) will probably never find out.
 

UnhandledException

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24,000 miles on a daily driven (including snow and -20F degree weather with 50W oil). 8 oil changes, all sent to blackstone labs, not a single parameter out of range.

Car uses 1qt per 1,000-1,500 miles depending on how I drive.

-I think some of this is bad luck.

- Some is improper maintenance. If you take the car in for oil changes, you honestly deserve some of this. They can be contaminating the oil, using wrong oil, not changing the filter, etc.

- Some of it is improper operation. Especially when car is cold. I have been saying this for months now here. Dont idle this engine when its cold. Just fucking drive. Drive it right away and dont go above 3500 rpm until CHT is 198F and oul temp is 160F. This is very important. By babying the car when cold, you pals are having that extremely thick and heavy oil circulate all the time. Why is this so hard for people to understand?:) You dont want to be keeping the rpms too high but too low is equally bad. The key is to warm up the oil as quickly as possible and that means driving it.

My car hasnt been to a dealer all this time except at 8000 miles for the A/C issue and it was fixed in 2 days. I dont take it to dealer for anything and take care of everything myself.
 

Tomster

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24,000 miles on a daily driven (including snow and -20F degree weather with 50W oil). 8 oil changes, all sent to blackstone labs, not a single parameter out of range.

Car uses 1qt per 1,000-1,500 miles depending on how I drive.

-I think some of this is bad luck.

- Some is improper maintenance. If you take the car in for oil changes, you honestly deserve some of this. They can be contaminating the oil, using wrong oil, not changing the filter, etc.

- Some of it is improper operation. Especially when car is cold. I have been saying this for months now here. Dont idle this engine when its cold. Just fucking drive. Drive it right away and dont go above 3500 rpm until CHT is 198F and oul temp is 160F. This is very important. By babying the car when cold, you pals are having that extremely thick and heavy oil circulate all the time. Why is this so hard for people to understand?:) You dont want to be keeping the rpms too high but too low is equally bad. The key is to warm up the oil as quickly as possible and that means driving it.

My car hasnt been to a dealer all this time except at 8000 miles for the A/C issue and it was fixed in 2 days. I dont take it to dealer for anything and take care of everything myself.
Yes Matt, I agree with your methods and I practice the same myself.

However, it is clear based upon the all the previous complaints and symptoms (from this and many other threads) that this is an oil deprivation problem. Everyone complains about the oil pressure dropping to zero and the subsequent damage that results.

In an older thread, there was a huge debate about the various possible causes to include driving habits and component failure.

So as much as I agree with your methods, I think there is more to this story. We (at M6G) are a small percentage of 350 owners. I don't like the numbers I am seeing and I cant imagine the amount of engines they are replacing system wide. If I were at Ford, I would have got to the bottom of this and found the cause and formulated some kind of solution.


I will not own one of these cars out of warranty until I know exactly what's going on.
 

btown93

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Yes Matt, I agree with your methods and I practice the same myself.

However, it is clear based upon the all the previous complaints and symptoms (from this and many other threads) that this is an oil deprivation problem. Everyone complains about the oil pressure dropping to zero and the subsequent damage that results.

In an older thread, there was a huge debate about the various possible causes to include driving habits and component failure.

So as much as I agree with your methods, I think there is more to this story. We (at M6G) are a small percentage of 350 owners. I don't like the numbers I am seeing and I cant imagine the amount of engines they are replacing system wide. If I were at Ford, I would have got to the bottom of this and found the cause and formulated some kind of solution.


I will not own one of these cars out of warranty until I know exactly what's going on.
I really hope that they are listening. The good news is that there are 2 postives from Ford as it pertains to after the sale customer service on FP vehicles. One is the 17B32 Focus RS head gasket recall, that it seems was largely done because of a vocal ownership group (and I'm sure large magazine publication helped) where they found out that the wrong head gaskets were installed at the factory. The second, and a source of much debate, the bumper TSB. I had mine fixed and I am VERY happy with it....but I do think in both cases it does show that someone is listening. I am as loyal a Ford fan as there is, and I admit that the failure rate of this engine makes me a little uneasy. Logically, if there is a legit issue, I don't see how any bean counter can ignore the warranty numbers on a repair that roughly equates to 40-50% of the cost of the vehicle. Not only that, the vehicle is still in production and rumored to be for another year.

In contrast, there are alot of boosted voodoos making reliable power out there....so perhaps it is not a design issue, but a part/supplier issue, or an assembly issue. Like most of us, I just don't know what to make of it.:shrug:
 

Minn19

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24,000 miles on a daily driven (including snow and -20F degree weather with 50W oil). 8 oil changes, all sent to blackstone labs, not a single parameter out of range.

Car uses 1qt per 1,000-1,500 miles depending on how I drive.

-I think some of this is bad luck.

- Some is improper maintenance. If you take the car in for oil changes, you honestly deserve some of this. They can be contaminating the oil, using wrong oil, not changing the filter, etc.

- Some of it is improper operation. Especially when car is cold. I have been saying this for months now here. Dont idle this engine when its cold. Just fucking drive. Drive it right away and dont go above 3500 rpm until CHT is 198F and oul temp is 160F. This is very important. By babying the car when cold, you pals are having that extremely thick and heavy oil circulate all the time. Why is this so hard for people to understand?:) You dont want to be keeping the rpms too high but too low is equally bad. The key is to warm up the oil as quickly as possible and that means driving it.

My car hasnt been to a dealer all this time except at 8000 miles for the A/C issue and it was fixed in 2 days. I dont take it to dealer for anything and take care of everything myself.
I mostly agree with what you are saying, but I don't think it is unreasonable (or it shouldn't be) to think that a Ford dealer should be able to at least get an oil change right. I also disagree that they get what they deserve if it goes wrong. A lot of people don't have the time or ability to do their own oil changes for various reasons.

I do think they get what they deserve if they've been warned to routinely check the oil and they don't. There should some sort of official disclaimer from either Ford or the dealer to do so when the car is delivered.
 

Tomster

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I really hope that they are listening. The good news is that there are 2 postives from Ford as it pertains to after the sale customer service on FP vehicles. One is the 17B32 Focus RS head gasket recall, that it seems was largely done because of a vocal ownership group (and I'm sure large magazine publication helped) where they found out that the wrong head gaskets were installed at the factory. The second, and a source of much debate, the bumper TSB. I had mine fixed and I am VERY happy with it....but I do think in both cases it does show that someone is listening. I am as loyal a Ford fan as there is, and I admit that the failure rate of this engine makes me a little uneasy. Logically, if there is a legit issue, I don't see how any bean counter can ignore the warranty numbers on a repair that roughly equates to 40-50% of the cost of the vehicle. Not only that, the vehicle is still in production and rumored to be for another year.

In contrast, there are alot of boosted voodoos making reliable power out there....so perhaps it is not a design issue, but a part/supplier issue, or an assembly issue. Like most of us, I just don't know what to make of it.:shrug:

Many of the boosted FPC motors have billet OPGs installed as part of the upgrade. Hmm. I wonder if that has something to do with the problems as previously speculated and debated?
 

17RubyShelbyGT350

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My Take - First Time Ford Owner

Yes Matt, I agree with your methods and I practice the same myself.

However, it is clear based upon the all the previous complaints and symptoms (from this and many other threads) that this is an oil deprivation problem. Everyone complains about the oil pressure dropping to zero and the subsequent damage that results.

In an older thread, there was a huge debate about the various possible causes to include driving habits and component failure.

So as much as I agree with your methods, I think there is more to this story. We (at M6G) are a small percentage of 350 owners. I don't like the numbers I am seeing and I cant imagine the amount of engines they are replacing system wide. If I were at Ford, I would have got to the bottom of this and found the cause and formulated some kind of solution.


I will not own one of these cars out of warranty until I know exactly what's going on.

Unlike many on this forum, I am a first time Ford owner. I was excited to see the return of the GT350 as it brought back many fond childhood memories related to one of the originals owned by a neighbor. I was excited to see that an American car manufacturer had the cojones to develop a FPC engine and put together a pretty unique package of components comprising the current GT350.

So, I crossed the line, was tired of Corvettes, owning 9 in the past - didn't want the ZL1 which I tried to like, but just couldn't - hence the purchase of my '17 GT350.

When I see folks like Tomster (who probably invested $150k in two Rs) growing concerned, it gives me pause. I don't have problems with mine - using 1 quart after 1500 fairly vigorous miles of driving is well within my comfort zone. I followed all the time honored break-in procedures for a much longer time than normal, and I monitor cold operation, oil levels, etc. carefully. I have 2500 miles on it now, 1500 on the last oil change.

But being the analytical sort, I see an familiar and very unwelcome pattern starting to emerge. I saw this "mysterious, corporate sweep it under the rug pattern" with GM and valve drop on way too many LS7's. Because I liked my '10 Z06 so much, I underwent the expense to completely replace the heads with specially prepped Brodix LS7 configuration heads - it wasn't cheap, and that led to a mod fest eventually producing a 3050 lb car pushing well over 600 NA horses. Maybe there is a production quality control problem, or maybe your penny pinchers went too far. I suspect that most of the cars sold have extremely low accrued mileage. If true, failures may increase exponentially in the future. I really hope it is NOT true.

Now, I am seeing anecdotal evidence of a statistically relevant number of VooDoo failures. This is starting to look like a sickeningly familiar pattern, including the manufacturer replacing motors without publically divulging what the problems were.

I am getting a little tired of this behavior.

I am sure that Ford monitors these forums. To Ford - I am not a Ford fanboy, given a am a first time buyer of a Ford. If there are statistically significant failures occurring, you owe it to your customers to step-up and publically let us know what is wrong and how you will address it. If not, I suspect I, and many like me - will not be shopping at a Ford store again. I know that you don't care about me, as an individual. But I am part of a much larger group that you better care about if you wish heed wise longer term business concerns.
/
 

btown93

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Many of the boosted FPC motors have billet OPGs installed as part of the upgrade. Hmm. I wonder if that has something to do with the problems as previously speculated and debated?
It's possible. I too, have read how much of an "achillies heel" the OPG is in all coyotes. It doesn't explain how the 302R/S turn key race cars had a production Boss 302 engine (and OPG) or how factory roush supercharged vehicles use the stock OPG in 5.0 cars and trucks. If it was truly borderline it stands to reason these vehicles would have them changed out? :shrug:
 

Eritas

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How many miles do those boosted cars have on them (post-boost)? It seems like most are garage/dyno queens that don't get driven. They make the power, and then are parked.
 

Mr. Ed

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The GT350 is built and advertised as track ready. Owners therefore expect the car to be suitable for extended runs at higher RPM's than you could possibly do, on a consistant basis on the street. Ford should expect that as well. However, they apparently are using the same OPG in the Coyote engine as the GT350. Yet, Ford puts a billet OPG in the 5.2L Aluminator. On the track, if there is an issue with the OPG, that is where you are going to see the majority of failures. A recall to replace the OPG in all GT350s would be a major cost due to complexity, probably more than the % of engines they are having to replace on cars people track.
 

DrumReaper

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this has been a concern since the first 5 engines popped back in 2016. At hat time the consensus, IIRC, was the OPG as the blame for low-pressure failures.

We even went through how tough cast was vs billet, to ad nauseum I just say.

Seems like we should be able to know that the majority of the reason for failures was, which IMHO, Ford being quiescent about all failures may indicate the major problem may be a simple part (OPG, e.g.) but one that has major cost associated with it to address (OPG, e.g.).

Couldn’t you see the line at the repair shop of Ford issued a TSB for the cast OPG to be replaced by a billet OPG?...
 

Tomster

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this has been a concern since the first 5 engines popped back in 2016. At hat time the consensus, IIRC, was the OPG as the blame for low-pressure failures.

We even went through how tough cast was vs billet, to ad nauseum I just say.

Seems like we should be able to know that the majority of the reason for failures was, which IMHO, Ford being quiescent about all failures may indicate the major problem may be a simple part (OPG, e.g.) but one that has major cost associated with it to address (OPG, e.g.).

Couldn’t you see the line at the repair shop of Ford issued a TSB for the cast OPG to be replaced by a billet OPG?...
And I think you hit the nail on the head. Some bean counter figured that it would be cheaper to replace these engines on a case by case basis as opposed to a major recall. How many track their cars and really push them where this may be a concern? I would say most are cars and coffee garage kept queens. There is nothing wrong with that, however until many miles are put on the clock (or you happen to trigger the catastrophic event - however that may be), you don't know if yours is going to be the unlucky one.


A friend reached out to me who is having this problem and we both agreed that we wont keep ours out of warranty unless we first know the exact nature of the problem and second, that the suspect parts are replaced.

I really don't think anyone should sell their car over this. If the car is in warranty, enjoy it. I have an 8 year extended warranty on my AG R, and I guess I need to buy a warranty on the TY R.

[MENTION=32698]17RubyShelbyGT350[/MENTION] , I wouldn't be hesitant, but just understand the concern and adjust your warranty if you plan to keep the car.
 
 
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