Recommendations for more power while staying N/A

[TEXAS HEAT]

Yeah, that's a good graph showing the top end and that does show why a CJ car would be quicker than an '18 ported even with the same peak hp (due to the higher avg hp). It sort of proves both our points: Ported '18 and CJ have the same peak hp in this case, but the CJ gets there sooner and holds it flat for a long time (making it a quicker car, even with no peak hp gain). No doubt that will be a quicker car. Ported '18 is a good compromise for the cost IMO. Outperforms all others (not counting the truck intake) until ~6100 rpm, then catches up to the CJ from 6900-7300, before falling off after that.

A ported GT350 may close that gap and carry power similar to the CJ, but port the CJ and it's still king. The GT350 will fit under the stock hood with no trickery though.

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[jmeiers]

This graph shows why CJ is king. Look at the green line from 6500 to 7500. CJ has more average horsepower in that range...

This is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. On an A10 car, the CJ will be pulling harder before the peak and during the peak and then keep shining as the 18 falls off a cliff.

 

[gixxersixxerman]

I agree with a lot that the best bang for buck is the ported 18, especially if you already have a 18. BUT if going max effort NA then ported CJ and cams is it. At that point though your knocking on centri FI door and can make even more. I think most the people agree the 18 may peak around the same as a CJ but doesnt make any where close to the power above 7500. Per dollar its hard to beat the 18 mani.

 

[KellTrac]

I like the test articles with dyno graphs. But I'm not sure they're truly indicative of how the car actually performs.

I will share some MAF flow data from my testing the other day. I made a 60-130 pull and datalog at 10AM with my ported 2018, removed and installed a non-ported GT350 intake manifold and made a 60-130 pull and datalog at 1PM. Three hours apart, the GT350 went faster and the log showed the MAF flow more and it needed 3-5% more fueling to maintain lamba. Same tunes, only change was removing a ported 18 in favor of an unported GT350

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

I like the test articles with dyno graphs. But I'm not sure they're truly indicative of how the car actually performs.

I will share some MAF flow data from my testing the other day. I made a 60-130 pull and datalog at 10AM with my ported 2018, removed and installed a non-ported GT350 intake manifold and made a 60-130 pull and datalog at 1PM. Three hours apart, the GT350 went faster and the log showed the MAF flow more and it needed 3-5% more fueling to maintain lamba. Same tunes, only change was removing a ported 18 in favor of an unported GT350

Nice. The dynos definitely don't show that type of gain. What was the difference in times between the ported '18 and the GT350 on these specific runs? I think earlier you had mentioned something like 0.40 seconds, but curious how the times compared this time around.

 

[KellTrac]

Here is some data. Blue is the GT350 on the Graph. 8.7 is the GT350 60-130, and 9.12 is the 18 Mani setup.

Both set ups have been quicker. Both has seen a touch more MAF flow etc....but this was done on a hot and muggy FL day a few hours apart....as close to back to back as I can get. People can believe it or not, or find flaws in it...but its just what I do in an effort to go faster. The people who usually scoff at the stuff I do, are the ones who cannot make the same combos go as quick and fast as mine. I am sure people will rely on the published dyno articles over this, and that is fine.

This is manifold swap only. Supporting mods are 95mm ZR1 TB, JLT 120mm CAI and 2" LTH Longtubes. No tuning changes whatsoever. Ran the 18, came home swapped to GT350 and ran the GT350.

 

[Zinc03svt]

I like the test articles with dyno graphs. But I'm not sure they're truly indicative of how the car actually performs.

I will share some MAF flow data from my testing the other day. I made a 60-130 pull and datalog at 10AM with my ported 2018, removed and installed a non-ported GT350 intake manifold and made a 60-130 pull and datalog at 1PM. Three hours apart, the GT350 went faster and the log showed the MAF flow more and it needed 3-5% more fueling to maintain lamba. Same tunes, only change was removing a ported 18 in favor of an unported GT350

What year is the GT350 intake manifold you are using? I am curious if they made any changes in it from 2016 to 2020? Damn, they are pricey.

Even the manifold shootout shows the gt350 making more torque than the 18.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Here is some data. Blue is the GT350 on the Graph. 8.7 is the GT350 60-130, and 9.12 is the 18 Mani setup.

Both set ups have been quicker. Both has seen a touch more MAF flow etc....but this was done on a hot and muggy FL day a few hours apart....as close to back to back as I can get. People can believe it or not, or find flaws in it...but its just what I do in an effort to go faster. The people who usually scoff at the stuff I do, are the ones who cannot make the same combos go as quick and fast as mine. I am sure people will rely on the published dyno articles over this, and that is fine.

This is manifold swap only. Supporting mods are 95mm ZR1 TB, JLT 120mm CAI and 2" LTH Longtubes. No tuning changes whatsoever. Ran the 18, came home swapped to GT350 and ran the GT350.

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing. What is fascinating to me is that the GT350 intake manifold was quicker with a slightly worse DA and with less downhill slope. Interesting data - difficult to refute with some dyno graphs. I'd love to see this same comparison between GT350 and the CJ but realize that's a more difficult proposition.

 

[KellTrac]

What year is the GT350 intake manifold you are using? I am curious if they made any changes in it from 2016 to 2020? Damn, they are pricey.

I am not quite sure. I got it used locally from a guy who bought a PP3 pack and had Ford install it in late 2018. (It came off of a 2017 GT)

Awesome info. Thanks for sharing. What is fascinating to me is that the GT350 intake manifold was quicker with a slightly worse DA and with less downhill slope. Interesting data - difficult to refute with some dyno graphs. I'd love to see this same comparison between GT350 and the CJ but realize that's a more difficult proposition.

Yes I agree, and it also surprises me that it was 4 car lengths quicker (66ft sooner / 16ft car length) - with the MAF data shown. But I suppose over a span like that, that average power increase really works out well.

My personal goal is to go 10.5X ET at 126+MPH with an OEM stock style longrunner manifold. If I achieve that, I may just go ahead and throw my CJ on it and do the same style of testing. Would be awesome to have ALL of the data from logs, dragy, drag strip on a ported 2018, ported GT350 (I will be porting this one) and a ported CJ combo.

 

[Zinc03svt]

Honestly for basically the same money I’d just go cobra jet if your buying new parts. If you could buy the gt350 for 400-500 it would be more doable imo.

 

[KellTrac]

Honestly for basically the same money I’d just go cobra jet if your buying new parts. If you could buy the gt350 for 400-500 it would be more doable imo.

I don't really think that's accurate. You can find GT350 intakes for $650 brand new. You re-use your TB. The CAI is a wash.

With a CJ you need to spend $1000 for the intake, $100+ for the TB, $100+ more for a CJ specific CAI, $100+ for lowering engine mounts etc.

It is twice the cost and much more work and effort.

But, I do agree the CJ is king. That is why I have one. I will use it eventually.

 

[KellTrac]

In my case, and likely MANY others.... I have $700 into a ported 2018...( an additional 5ish hrs of work to it from myself )

A new GT350 IM for $650 would have been much nicer for me, especially since it is faster on my set up. lol.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Zinc03svt]

I don't really think that's accurate. You can find GT350 intakes for $650 brand new. You re-use your TB. The CAI is a wash.

With a CJ you need to spend $1000 for the intake, $100+ for the TB, $100+ more for a CJ specific CAI, $100+ for lowering engine mounts etc.

It is twice the cost and much more work and effort.

But, I do agree the CJ is king. That is why I have one. I will use it eventually.

Where are you seeing 650?

 

[KellTrac]

The internet...lol.

Here is a quick link.

https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts/ford-intake-manifold-gr3z9424c

 

[FruityJudy]

Here is some data. Blue is the GT350 on the Graph. 8.7 is the GT350 60-130, and 9.12 is the 18 Mani setup.

Both set ups have been quicker. Both has seen a touch more MAF flow etc....but this was done on a hot and muggy FL day a few hours apart....as close to back to back as I can get. People can believe it or not, or find flaws in it...but its just what I do in an effort to go faster. The people who usually scoff at the stuff I do, are the ones who cannot make the same combos go as quick and fast as mine. I am sure people will rely on the published dyno articles over this, and that is fine.

This is manifold swap only. Supporting mods are 95mm ZR1 TB, JLT 120mm CAI and 2" LTH Longtubes. No tuning changes whatsoever. Ran the 18, came home swapped to GT350 and ran the GT350.

What about this throttle body you speak of

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