Realistic R alternative - modded E92 M3

[MCarsFan]

The cars will be relatively comparable, the limiting factor will always be you and your skill level. If you have never done it before, then honestly it doesnt matter, you are better off buying a prepped E36 and lots of track time.

But at the end of the day its always cheaper/easier to buy vs build. Buy a GT350 and keep it stock or buy a pre-built E92.

Yeah, you have a good valid point.

Also maybe I should look into E36 as well.

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[R 350 gt Donson]

When you have the wedding Vows with your "Fixed up BMW" remember for better or worst...Because you will be married to the car, and will never see day light on getting your money back. With the R...if this is only going to a 2017 MY and stopping..the GT350 will only go up in value. You would at least have a chance at recouping most of your money. I doubt you will have the same luck with the BMW..IMO

 

[MCarsFan]

When you have the wedding Vows with your "Fixed up BMW" remember for better or worst...Because you will be married to the car, and will never see day light on getting your money back. With the R...if this is only going to a 2017 MY and stopping..the GT350 will only go up in value. You would at least have a chance at recouping most of your money. I doubt you will have the same luck with the BMW..IMO

That is correct to some degree.

E92s already depreciated enough and from this point on, they will only depreciate marginally in the next 5 years. I am looking at high mileage 6-8 year old cars which go for 25-30k. These cars went to 25k from 75k. They already depreciated 65%. They are not going to be worth 5k next year. At the worst 2-3k more. I think I can get half of what I put in for the mods, thats 10k, back if and when I sell them. For some such as seats I will get 80-85% value whereas for other things such as suspension or brakes, it ll be 40% or so. I have successfully sold a number of "M tax" items before and they sell well.

That being said, these are emotional choices and I am not really worried about my investment losing value. I can also argue that the loss on 40k ADM will be far more than the 10k loss on my mods no? 40k ADM will be worth 0 the next day....

 

[ir0nxchefx]

s65 is an awesome motor and BMW has received many engineering accolades for it.But you really notice that 295 ft lbs of tq.

This is why I sold my fully modded e92 m3, and bought a gt350. I had it all, jrz coilovers, Brembo 380mm brakes, full on dinan exhaust, cat delete, full on suspension upgrades....toe links etc, and a evolve supercharger. It was a fun car to drive, but boring...maybe because I had a DCT. Even with the supercharger the car still had low torque, the 350 just feels like it has more usable power to me.

Also, if you get a M3......make sure they replace the rod bearings on their own dime.....I replaced mine at 20k miles, and it looked like they had done 75k miles.

 

[Grunholle]

This is a great time to buy a low-mileage E90/92 M3 with a manual, the buyer's market is very favorable on those right now and maybe you can find a BMW Individual painted example which will always hold their value better over a stock color.

That said I would still encourage you to seek out a Track Pack GT350 @ MSRP if you've given up hope on a R and didn't want to do the legwork to find the $7500 ADM deal you wanted. The non-R GT350 is still going to be very special and I feel a better out-of-the-box engaging experience than the E90/92 M3 can provide. This is coming from a current E90 M3 owner.

Bottom-line, it's up to YOU to decide what fits your needs and budget, I find asking make-specific forums will always garner a biased opinion but I hope that some of us on the board who do have experience with both brands can help provide some useful guidance for you to make YOUR decision.

Best of luck!

 

[Grunholle]

P.S. I'm not sure why the $40k ADM figure is being thrown around since R allocations are plentiful at $20k over and non-R's are at MSRP but I digress.

A stock E90/E92 will always be worth more money in the long run than a modded one. If you're good with dumping mod money into a car that will depreciate faster than a stock car, then no worries! BUT, heed my warning, I have a friend who has dumped a HUGE amount of money into a track-prepped EVO8 that he's use to win a TT title with and it's hard (i.e. impossible) for him to separate how much he has invested into the car and getting rid of it even though he hasn't driven it in a good 5+ years! If you don't mind ever recouping what you put into a modded car then no worries, have at it, modding cars is fun!

I have to also echo the sentiment that E36 M3's are worth looking into, they're great under appreciated cars, the S52 is bulletproof and the prices on those are on the rise.

 

[Adaraas]

Yeah but with a non-R GT350, I am still looking at 60k. Lighter wheels that will make an impact to performance will still cost me 10k. Add another 2-3k for roll cage and 5 point harness. So its at least 75k.

E92M3s do weigh 3550 (google this yourselves) with a half tank of gas if the car is lightly optioned. Just the exhaust saves 60lbs, add that to seats, removing trunk liner, brakes, and you can easily get 3400 lbs. below that is possible but cost becomes an issue.

I think some of the comments I see here are from people who have mustang backgrounds and never drove the V8 M3. So to them as one poster said, anything 6500rpm is new and earth shattering. But to me, its not different than what BMW built in 2006. Yeah its not FPC, but it has ITB. It has throttle response that probably only GT3 can match. I actually like the exhaust and induction sound of both cars equally. I was leaning towards the mustang because its newer tech, has magnaride, and CF wheels.

The reason why I posted here in the first place was to ask people with experience in track. The mods I listed for the m3, kw club, 380mm brembos, titanium exhaust, tune, will these upgrades totally transform the car to a similar level such as R or the old GT3? OR, no matter what I do, the old M3 still be underwhelming because of the chassis is build and there is no way to improve that, I.e rigidity.

One other thing to note is M3 is about 10 or so inches shorter, 5 inches narrower, and inch or so lower. So there is the benefit of smaller body.

You can get wheels that weigh 20 lbs, and tires all in for less than 4000, maybe 3500

 

[MCarsFan]

This is why I sold my fully modded e92 m3, and bought a gt350. I had it all, jrz coilovers, Brembo 380mm brakes, full on dinan exhaust, cat delete, full on suspension upgrades....toe links etc, and a evolve supercharger. It was a fun car to drive, but boring...maybe because I had a DCT. Even with the supercharger the car still had low torque, the 350 just feels like it has more usable power to me.

Also, if you get a M3......make sure they replace the rod bearings on their own dime.....I replaced mine at 20k miles, and it looked like they had done 75k miles.

So how do you compare your modded m3 to the gt350?

- Roadholding
- Brakes
- Steering (hydraulic vs electric)
- sound
- Power delivery (throttle response)

Your opinion matters a great deal so if you can be specific, that'd be great

 

[Blk2015GT]

You can get wheels that weigh 20 lbs, and tires all in for less than 4000, maybe 3500

Probably less. My cheapo 20x10 with 285s Niche setup for $1800 total with Nitto tires from CJPP are only 26 pound each. That's on the light side for a cheaper 20x10.

The replica 350 wheels sold in the Wheel.Tire section here are only 23-24 pounds and probably around $2500 with tires.

 

[icormba]

A few of my co-workers have M3s and the funny thing I noticed in sound was that the V8 M3 sounds more American whereas the GT350 sounds more European... Italian 'ish one might say. ;)


Note:
My next door neighbor works for Dinan. I could have gotten all the Dinan parts and service I wanted at cost. My first exposure to them was with their 2002 Dinan S2-M5. Neighbor used to drive it home on the weekends. F'ing fast for the time.

 

[Blk2015GT]

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2011-2011-ford-mustang-gt-vs-2011-bmw-m3-comparison/

Also realize that the E92 M3 jut barely hung around with a 2011 GT; not even the upgraded S550 GT now. Let alone the Voodoo the magnaride.

I just cannot see dropping $50k total on a few year old used car vs on a brand new car (and you may need to put more than $20k into an M3 to make up the 111hp and 140 ft lbs, probably some type of forced induction which itself will run a good $10k installed without whatever beefing up you need to do to support the power, plus match the 350 magnaride suspension and brakes). If it was just a daily driver sure get a E92 M3 for $30k and enjoy it; for competition the 350.

The 350 track pack is probably a better option than an R too; so maybe $60k.

 

[icormba]

and remember…
Jay Leno compared his GT350R to his McLaren P1 twice, Ferrari at least 8 times, and once to a Lambo. All in this video here: No mention of M3’s though.
[ame]

Then, check out these other happy GT350(R) owners. They all own some pretty awesome "other" cars:
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55008

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=920966#post920966

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1210809#post1210809

and there’s Bossing… he’s just all over the place! ;)

I say give the GT350 a shot!

bretlasalle, on this forum, sold his Base GT350 for $63k and got a BMW Alpina… so the resale value is looking good (if you end up not liking the GT350).
http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=53929&highlight=alpina

 

[Sprintamx]

Since you asked for opinions from a track-focused perspective, my suggestion is . . . neither the e92 nor the GT350.

Your comments suggest that you do not have extensive track experience. There is so much that you will need to learn about how to maintain and live with a car set up for and run on the track, including how deep your preparations will be.

Spend your money more effectively and step into a platform that will be plenty fast in any group of cars, will be easy to buy already built, easy to learn in and maintain, and easy to sell on when you're ready: e36 M3 that has been built is a great example that has been suggested already. Or even a prepped e46 M3 with a step up in the buy-in range.

You're at the stage where you need to work on your skills at the fundamental level, and it can take a long time to effectively manage high HP on track. Big numbers under the hood do not readily translate into fast track times or guarantee the grin factor.

So that's my $0.02 as a racer and instructor.

 

[icormba]

I agree!!
While in the passenger seat during the Track Tour Hot laps... I had visions of sugar plums and DEATH dancing through my head!

Since you asked for opinions from a track-focused perspective, my suggestion is . . . neither the e92 nor the GT350.

Your comments suggest that you do not have extensive track experience. There is so much that you will need to learn about how to maintain and live with a car set up for and run on the track, including how deep your preparations will be.

Spend your money more effectively and step into a platform that will be plenty fast in any group of cars, will be easy to buy already built, easy to learn in and maintain, and easy to sell on when you're ready: e36 M3 that has been built is a great example that has been suggested already. Or even a prepped e46 M3 with a step up in the buy-in range.

You're at the stage where you need to work on your skills at the fundamental level, and it can take a long time to effectively manage high HP on track. Big numbers under the hood do not readily translate into fast track times or guarantee the grin factor.

So that's my $0.02 as a racer and instructor.

 

[Sprintamx]

I don't want to derail the OP's thread, but at my last track event I drove 3 cars: my race prepped e36 M3 (2970 lbs race trim) producing just under 250 WHP, my GT350 and my buddies' race prepped e30 M3 (2540 lbs race trim) with an e36 s52 motor producing 255 WHP. By far the biggest grin factor was the e30! That car required a lot of development, but what a hoot!

The point being, that a broader perspective on what you're trying to accomplish and what you "need" to do that can be very, very rewarding.

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