Realistic R alternative - modded E92 M3

[MCarsFan]

Yeah but with a non-R GT350, I am still looking at 60k. Lighter wheels that will make an impact to performance will still cost me 10k. Add another 2-3k for roll cage and 5 point harness. So its at least 75k.

E92M3s do weigh 3550 (google this yourselves) with a half tank of gas if the car is lightly optioned. Just the exhaust saves 60lbs, add that to seats, removing trunk liner, brakes, and you can easily get 3400 lbs. below that is possible but cost becomes an issue.

I think some of the comments I see here are from people who have mustang backgrounds and never drove the V8 M3. So to them as one poster said, anything 6500rpm is new and earth shattering. But to me, its not different than what BMW built in 2006. Yeah its not FPC, but it has ITB. It has throttle response that probably only GT3 can match. I actually like the exhaust and induction sound of both cars equally. I was leaning towards the mustang because its newer tech, has magnaride, and CF wheels.

The reason why I posted here in the first place was to ask people with experience in track. The mods I listed for the m3, kw club, 380mm brembos, titanium exhaust, tune, will these upgrades totally transform the car to a similar level such as R or the old GT3? OR, no matter what I do, the old M3 still be underwhelming because of the chassis is build and there is no way to improve that, I.e rigidity.

One other thing to note is M3 is about 10 or so inches shorter, 5 inches narrower, and inch or so lower. So there is the benefit of smaller body.

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[Westfalia]

if Ford Performance comes out with an ITB kit for voodoo that will be truly sick. faster response and higher rev i would imagine too. maybe over 560hp easy.

the entire kit + install+tune will most likely run over 7-8k

lol @ paying someone to install that. What could be simpler? It's all right on top.

 

[krt22]

Nay on a modded older car over the GT350R.

Track pack MY16/Base MY17, remove resonators, slap on some lightweight wheels and sticker tires. 90-95% of the R, much much less headache and cash out put.

An E92 with 20k in mods is going to be a big liability in the long run. Arsenal is our resitant E92 M3 cheerleader so his opinion is obviously a bit biased. Id say find a local GT350 owner and catch a ride in one before you write it off completely. The R is great, but the GT350 with some minor tweaks is still a fanstastic car. Anyone who says it isnt special is really an outlier.

 

[OW_GT350R]

Just so I understand correctly.

You aren't willing to spend anything over MSRP on the R, but will gladly buy an older for $30K, then dump an additional $20K into it? So is the R to expensive?

There are a million ways to "make" another car faster than the R, but when it comes time to get rid of it, don't shower that morning as you will most certainly be taking a bath.

 

[krt22]

Yeah but with a non-R GT350, I am still looking at 60k. Lighter wheels that will make an impact to performance will still cost me 10k. Add another 2-3k for roll cage and 5 point harness. So its at least 75k.

You dont need a fully forged wheel, plenty of rotary forged options in the 1500-2000 range. The watson roll cage is $1200, but you would need to pay the same (or more) for the equivalent in the E92. At the end of the day it could easily be done for 65-68k and lose very little value over the next few years.

Where as a 30k E92 with 20k in mods is will be more sub 30k in a few years.

One other thing to note is M3 is about 10 or so inches shorter, 5 inches narrower, and inch or so lower. So there is the benefit of smaller body.

Not sure where you got these, the e92 is about 6" shorter, however its same width, and the S550 is actually a bit shorter than.

 

[nastang87xx]

E92M3s do weigh 3550 (google this yourselves) with a half tank of gas if the car is lightly optioned.

I believe everything I read on the internet. Oh by the way, google says 3704.

C&D: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2008-bmw-m3-road-test-specs-page-5

3650


Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2008/road-test-4/

3704


Motor Trend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m3/2008/

3678


Vorshlag: http://vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7806

3652



I'm having trouble finding this 3550 number. Both of the M3's at my local autox chapter are in the low/mid 3700 range. Both are Comp Packs and both have DCT's. And half a tank of gas? You're really going to split hairs? I can say my 350 weighs less than 3700lbs then too...with no gas. C'mon...

 

[MCarsFan]

This conversation might be better if you discussed a vehicle that is currently available and matched the R performance without mods. I'm sure many can argue a lot of older/cheaper vehicles after mods can be made to be competitive. A car delivered to the consumer with similar performance/spirit at the same price point is a whole different story.

I think you should reread my OP. I am comparing an old cheaper car with mods to a new expensive car with ADM. I am comparing them because they meet my criteria of naturally aspirated track toys. Question being can a car that costs 1/3 with same engine characteristics be made equally performant or better after spending 20k for it?

 

[arsenalrocks]

http://media.caranddriver.com/files...mw-m3-vs-2012-mercedes-benz-c63-amg-jan12.pdf

3552lb 6mt

I believe everything I read on the internet. Oh by the way, google says 3704.

C&D: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2008-bmw-m3-road-test-specs-page-5

3650


Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2008/road-test-4/

3704


Motor Trend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m3/2008/

3678


Vorshlag: http://vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7806

3652



I'm having trouble finding this 3550 number. Both of the M3's at my local autox chapter are in the low/mid 3700 range. Both are Comp Packs and both have DCT's. And half a tank of gas? You're really going to split hairs? I can say my 350 weighs less than 3700lbs then too...with no gas. C'mon...

 

[MCarsFan]

I believe everything I read on the internet. Oh by the way, google says 3704.

C&D: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2008-bmw-m3-road-test-specs-page-5

3650


Edmunds: http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m3/2008/road-test-4/

3704


Motor Trend: http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/m3/2008/

3678


Vorshlag: http://vorshlag.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7806

3652



I'm having trouble finding this 3550 number. Both of the M3's at my local autox chapter are in the low/mid 3700 range. Both are Comp Packs and both have DCT's. And half a tank of gas? You're really going to split hairs? I can say my 350 weighs less than 3700lbs then too...with no gas. C'mon...

First of all, calm down and chill out

I said 6MT and CF roof. DCT and sunroof combined add significant weight. Also I got my figures from m3post where people posted actual numbers from a real scale they used. Here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442503
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=642270

There is a lot more, just google "e92 m3 6mt weight".

 

[MCarsFan]

Just so I understand correctly.

You aren't willing to spend anything over MSRP on the R, but will gladly buy an older for $30K, then dump an additional $20K into it? So is the R to expensive?

There are a million ways to "make" another car faster than the R, but when it comes time to get rid of it, don't shower that morning as you will most certainly be taking a bath.

Of course I will. Paying 40k ADM on a 63k car vs paying 20k in mods (keyword being tangible goods that you can use, touch, feel, and even sell at some point), hmm thats toughie

 

[MCarsFan]

I knew before posting this question that the conversation would easily steer off topic so I limited my question to:

- Performance
- Fun

I dont care about resale value. I care about pure performance and pure enjoyment.

I dont want to drop that kind of money on a car though if those upgrades will make a marginal improvement. I have never done this before and I am sure there are people here who have more experience than me.

 

[cosmo]

I think you should reread my OP. I am comparing an old cheaper car with mods to a new expensive car with ADM. I am comparing them because they meet my criteria of naturally aspirated track toys. Question being can a car that costs 1/3 with same engine characteristics be made equally performant or better after spending 20k for it?

I don't think anyone will be able to definitely say whether or not you can match the performance. You'd still be down on power, more than youd be able to compensate with weight reduction as the 350 also has free weight reduction available (no back seat, cut out resonators, remove liners). The suspension may be able to be compensated for, but there's no way for us to know unless both these cars were out there in the same conditions.

It can be compared on paper but you're changing so much of the vehicle it's hard to say for sure. Maybe ask yourself if you want built or bought instead of trying to compare a highly modified car to a stock car.

 

[SoCalTim]

Lets put aside the name, the brand, and all the other intangible stuff and focus on:

- Performance
- Fun

It doesnt make sense to pay a 40k premium over the build above for R. If R was selling sticker, then I wouldnt even bring this up.

Aside from the R, why not a regular GT350?

 

[redline727]

s65 is an awesome motor and BMW has received many engineering accolades for it. I used to work at BMW as a service advisor and one of my favorite cars was a manual E90 M3. I just preferred the looks of the sedan for that body style. But you really notice that 295 ft lbs of tq. It was the most fun burying the needle for sure. I have yet to drive a GT350/R but I imagine losing over 100 ft lbs of tq will be even more noticeable than the over 100 hp lost during regular driving situations

 

[krt22]

I knew before posting this question that the conversation would easily steer off topic so I limited my question to:

- Performance
- Fun

I dont care about resale value. I care about pure performance and pure enjoyment.

I dont want to drop that kind of money on a car though if those upgrades will make a marginal improvement. I have never done this before and I am sure there are people here who have more experience than me.

The cars will be relatively comparable, the limiting factor will always be you and your skill level. If you have never done it before, then honestly it doesnt matter, you are better off buying a prepped E36 and lots of track time.

But at the end of the day its always cheaper/easier to buy vs build. Buy a GT350 and keep it stock or buy a pre-built E92.

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