Grunholle
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JeremyGSU
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Hello,
I am new to the forum and I do not own either but I have driven an E92 on track so I will give my opinion as a former track enthusiast and Chin instructor. I have about 100 HPDE's under my belt. My last track car was a street/track '04 C5 Z06. My buddy had a '11 E92 with power upgrades, ST40 front brake kit, and a nice coilovers (I don't remember which ones).
I drove his E92 at Sebring several times and it is a fantastic car. It performed great and handled well. However, despite it's suspension upgrades I still always felt as though the car felt heavy in corners compared to my Vette, but not in a straight line or braking. His car was actually very close to mine in straight line power and mine made 392whp. I didn't pull him much too much on cooler days, but his car would heat soak pretty bad on hotter days. His brakes were SO much better than mine. I had an AP T1 (12.8") front kit and stock rears with XP20/XP10 pads, cooling, lines, fluid, etc. We both ran on Continental GTI slicks and he could kill me in braking despite the car being heavier. That always impressed me.
I enjoyed the BMW on track but liked my Vette more. The DCT is awesome and amazing, but at the same time I felt so disconnected to the car with it. I almost found it boring in a way. I don't know how else to describe it. I guess I'm just a manual guy.
Prior to the E92 my buddy had built a really badass E46 M3 full blown race car. It was stripped to the bone, caged, etc. The E46 felt much more tossable on track than the E92. If I were going to build a track car I'd pick that or even an E36 as a starting platform over the E92. I've also driven E36's on track and an E36 with the E46 engine swap. The E36 feels even more tossable. The E92 just feels like a family sedan on track, despite still performing.
My recommendation is to go with the GT350. It is a great package. Amazing sounding engine, great seats from the factory, awesome brakes, and Magna ride suspension. It's just a complete package and even if the Beemer is more refined, and could be made faster than a new Mustang I think the Mustang would be more "fun".
I compared the same choice to my C5 Z, which even at 12 years old was still an amazing performer at the track. I ran consistent 2:25's at Sebring with mild upgrades, race seat, and slicks. I even thought the car still looked good for the model year but the inside was very dated when driving around on the street. And when not tracking it's a pain in the ass getting in/out of it. The new Mustang is just about as fast as bolt on C5 Z, better brakes, better suspension and looks badass. So I would take that over dumping another $30k into my C5 and making it a real monster.
I personally would go with the Stang over dumping all that money into a E92.
I'm hoping I can get myself in a used GT350 in a few years when prices come down a little bit.
That's my $.02
Jeremy
I am new to the forum and I do not own either but I have driven an E92 on track so I will give my opinion as a former track enthusiast and Chin instructor. I have about 100 HPDE's under my belt. My last track car was a street/track '04 C5 Z06. My buddy had a '11 E92 with power upgrades, ST40 front brake kit, and a nice coilovers (I don't remember which ones).
I drove his E92 at Sebring several times and it is a fantastic car. It performed great and handled well. However, despite it's suspension upgrades I still always felt as though the car felt heavy in corners compared to my Vette, but not in a straight line or braking. His car was actually very close to mine in straight line power and mine made 392whp. I didn't pull him much too much on cooler days, but his car would heat soak pretty bad on hotter days. His brakes were SO much better than mine. I had an AP T1 (12.8") front kit and stock rears with XP20/XP10 pads, cooling, lines, fluid, etc. We both ran on Continental GTI slicks and he could kill me in braking despite the car being heavier. That always impressed me.
I enjoyed the BMW on track but liked my Vette more. The DCT is awesome and amazing, but at the same time I felt so disconnected to the car with it. I almost found it boring in a way. I don't know how else to describe it. I guess I'm just a manual guy.
Prior to the E92 my buddy had built a really badass E46 M3 full blown race car. It was stripped to the bone, caged, etc. The E46 felt much more tossable on track than the E92. If I were going to build a track car I'd pick that or even an E36 as a starting platform over the E92. I've also driven E36's on track and an E36 with the E46 engine swap. The E36 feels even more tossable. The E92 just feels like a family sedan on track, despite still performing.
My recommendation is to go with the GT350. It is a great package. Amazing sounding engine, great seats from the factory, awesome brakes, and Magna ride suspension. It's just a complete package and even if the Beemer is more refined, and could be made faster than a new Mustang I think the Mustang would be more "fun".
I compared the same choice to my C5 Z, which even at 12 years old was still an amazing performer at the track. I ran consistent 2:25's at Sebring with mild upgrades, race seat, and slicks. I even thought the car still looked good for the model year but the inside was very dated when driving around on the street. And when not tracking it's a pain in the ass getting in/out of it. The new Mustang is just about as fast as bolt on C5 Z, better brakes, better suspension and looks badass. So I would take that over dumping another $30k into my C5 and making it a real monster.
I personally would go with the Stang over dumping all that money into a E92.
I'm hoping I can get myself in a used GT350 in a few years when prices come down a little bit.
That's my $.02
Jeremy
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ir0nxchefx
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PM sentSo how do you compare your modded m3 to the gt350?
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Your opinion matters a great deal so if you can be specific, that'd be great
MCarsFan
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Jeremy,
Thank you, this is very helpful. One follow up question I have is, on one hand you are saying the E92 is almost like a family car because of its size and weight, but mustang is longer, wider, and heavier. Is it because the M3 does not have the right suspension/brakes or is it because its down on power not giving the same quick feeling as the mustang's 400+ tq?
Thanks again, very very useful post.
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JeremyGSU
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Well, maybe family car wasn't the right word. It's just coming from my Vette it felt a lot bigger, and of course it was. Still was fast, braked amazing, and handled well. I do think this suspension needed some more dialing in perhaps and he hadn't gotten it just right. Sebring is extremely bumpy and that is the only course I drove his car on. But the car was definitely fast with just a few upgrades.
From what I've read despite the Mustangs weight it "feels" light so I wouldn't get too wrapped up in just weight. Even the new Z06 is heavier than say an older C5 Z06 by several hundred pounds and handles amazing from the reviews.
I wish I could drive a GT350 to give you a good comparison. The car looks like a blast to me.
icormba
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MCarsFan
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Thanks Jeremy, you have been very helpful with your feedback.
Leaning towards not going down the E92 route at all. Maybe I should pick up a Miata to learn tracking before driving myself into a wall at the track for the next 6-12 months and hope by then the ADMs go down. I will do some research on miatas, but this forum has been very helpful. Thanks everyone!
Blk2015GT
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Look clearly you want the M3 and wont let anyone convince you of anything else evidenced by arguing over literally single digit inches here. So please do sign off here and go buy it.
/thread. 10th unsubscribed, waste of time here.
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Sprintamx
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Overall, I think this has been a productive thread for you OP. Now, if I can be very forward, I suggest you start a new thread on "starter track cars." That is in no way a reflection on the GT 350, and if you positively, absolutely must have a corner carving V8 in your life--I know I did--then the 350 will be waiting.
Since I think your purpose is to develop a streetable track-focused car, look very hard at the Miata, BRZ, e36 or a mid-2000s Boxster or Cayman. Different cars and spaced across a spectrum of cost and power, but each is a great platform for developing drivers. Feel free to PM me if you want my opinions as to why I think these are great starting / learning platforms.
Since I think your purpose is to develop a streetable track-focused car, look very hard at the Miata, BRZ, e36 or a mid-2000s Boxster or Cayman. Different cars and spaced across a spectrum of cost and power, but each is a great platform for developing drivers. Feel free to PM me if you want my opinions as to why I think these are great starting / learning platforms.
Trackaholic
Well-Known Member
If you can find a Cayman at the right price, it would be a great choice. They are agile and light, extremely well balanced, but with enough power to still be thrilling in a straight line. The fixed roof allows track use in stock form (convertibles will require a roll bar for many clubs).
The balanced chassis makes the car very easy to control at the limit, and the price will have stablized, so you won't lose much when you decide to sell.
The only downside is that the chassis is so good that the car always feels somewhat underpowered and it also may lack character in some respects. Definitely worth a test drive.
-T
The balanced chassis makes the car very easy to control at the limit, and the price will have stablized, so you won't lose much when you decide to sell.
The only downside is that the chassis is so good that the car always feels somewhat underpowered and it also may lack character in some respects. Definitely worth a test drive.
-T
xt6wagon
Well-Known Member
2009+ Cayman S you mean. Base Cayman are made of failure. Older ones arent as good. Sadly Porsche didn't sell too many 09 Cayman S, so finding one is hard. And while not cheap, the 09+ can take a 3.8L engine swap easy to fix that power issue.
Trackaholic
Well-Known Member
Good point. I drove an early Cayman non-S, with a very sloppy 5-speed manual, and it was underwhelming for what I wanted out of a car. It did handle really well though.
-T
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