Real world Oil change interval

[Bullitt66]

So the idiot message ‘change oil soon’ appeared today on my car (v8).
It’s managed a tremendous 2091 miles over 3 months since the last change (by a Ford dealer using genuine parts & correct synthetic oil).
What digs? Porsche now have 20k service interval!
I know the Stang uses sensors to calculate oil change timing and I do a lot of heavy traffic trips, but even my classic 1973 yank manages 3k between oil changes...
Can anyone beat 2k between oil changes?

Sponsored

 

[Manders Mustang]

reset it and go at 10k or 1 year whatever occurs first. Sometimes they 'forget' to reset it.

 

[Bullitt66]

i had to reset it 2k ago after the dealer forgot...
So yes I can get it to stop nagging me.
But I guess my questions are:
1) is this common?
2) does it really need it?
Personally I don’t think so, but the ford techy geeks must have made an algorithm for the ‘idiot light’ based on some logic?
A quick google about shows issues with oil foaming and contamination, but the cynic in me sees Ford profit.
If a 911 turbo can manage 20k between oil changes, surely some Detroit iron can?

 

[slowhand99]

i had to reset it 2k ago after the dealer forgot...
So yes I can get it to stop nagging me.
But I guess my questions are:
1) is this common?
2) does it really need it?
Personally I don’t think so, but the ford techy geeks must have made an algorithm for the ‘idiot light’ based on some logic?
A quick google about shows issues with oil foaming and contamination, but the cynic in me sees Ford profit.
If a 911 turbo can manage 20k between oil changes, surely some Detroit iron can?

1) Yes
2) No
Mine came on this weekend after 5 months and 2000ish miles. Always has, and I guess it always will. I use it intermittently which is what seems to bugger it up as my trips tend to be a good long cruise, without stop start. Just reset and go with the 10k or annual whichever comes first.

 

[Bullitt66]

Good advice. Will stop it nagging and ensure it’s changed before 12 months. Probably a good excuse to give it thrashing to warm the oil more

 

[AstroKeith]

I spend quite a lot of time in the US and talking cars & engines. The US driver is accustomed to frequent oil changes, but in the past these were cheap. We meet each year in west Texas and some of the older drivers who drive across the US will automatically get an oil change for the journey. Its in their DNA! Many cars still in use over there still state in the manual 3000 miles or 3 months between oil changes, Ok so this was for non-synthetic oil, but it has got into their mindsets.

The details of the algorithm that the IOLM uses in our cars isn't available it seems, but we do know it is influenced mainly by load, either by towing or driving hard (twisty roads comes into this category), climate seems to be high on the list, which shouldn't be a problem for us in the UK!, and idling time is also mentioned. Our traffic in the UK is generally more stop/idle/start than the US driver sees and so we might be being hit by that factor?

I think if Ford reckoned our engines were OK to go for longer without a change, they would exploit it as a competitive benefit?

Most S550 owners in my local club seem to be getting 6000 miles wish before a warning. So perhaps that is the norm for UK driving conditions. I suspect the IOLM is basically the same as for all new Fords and the official Ford figures say expect 7500-10000 at most. Now a Mustang isn't a typical Ford car, and the drivers aren't either! We all enjoy feeling the acceleration.

I've been an professional engineer all my life. I reckon good oil is just about the biggest thing we can personally ensure in our cars. The rest is down to manufacturing tolerances and luck.

I change mine when it tells me, usually at 6000 miles or so. Now I'm past warranty the cost is about the same as two fuel tank fills ups.

 

[Garvin]

The previous BMWs and Audis I have run required fully synthetic oil changes at 20k miles or when the oil change lamp came on (whichever was the sooner). These were powerful, large(ish) NA and twin turbo’d engines. All highly stressed.

I did ~10k miles pa and the oil change indicator would come up around 19k miles so these cars were serviced at just under 2 year intervals. Over 30k miles these engines never missed a beat and the MoT emissions results at the 3 year point were always ‘spot on’.

I have read many reports, reviews and investigations on fully synthetic engine oils and they are quite capable of these sorts of mileages and durations unless you are racing/tracking your vehicle regularly.

The moral of the story is that these modern engine oils are easily capable of at least 10k mile or 12 month (whichever is the sooner) duty cycles for a normally driven Mustang. Changing the oil sooner is, quite frankly, just wasting money.

 

[AstroKeith]

I don't want to start a game of ping pong, but..

I too have had plenty of Mercedes, etc. All company cars which is more common in Europe than the US. Getting the running costs low are a key discriminator for the fleet car manager. Also most of these cars aren't expected to be owned by the fleet manager for more than a couple of years typically. I also think that engine build tolerances are probably better in Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc. So 20k servicing is attractive.

A lot of my US friends have done 100-200k miles plus, in their own vehicles. This isn't unusual but we would deem such a mileage very high.

So, there is a real prospect that Ford engineer designers and manufacturers have taken this into account. Plus the Coyote engine has some features such as the piston cooling jets and the paper thin cylinder sleeves that could mean increased oil wear and increased need for good oil.

Your oil starts breaking down the moment it is put in the engine, cold starts and idling have a big impact on degradation.

So my final comment (again), if you are going to keep your stang for a high mileage, then why take the risk of Ford's engine designers not being right?

 

[v8hgt]

Have elected to change mine every 5 k miles now it’s broken in properly. That’s approx once per year for me. Did the first change at 250 miles to get the crud out, then second change at 3k miles to catch any crud missed in the first change. Modern synthetic oils should be able to cope. It’s not like there are oil cooled turbos to cook the oil after hot shutdowns.

This reminds me. Better check mileage soon to decide if the next change is before or after winter storage/sorn

 

[Bullitt66]

all fair points well made

Why would idling contaminate oil? Ok it gives longer warming up but surely that’s more a wear issue, idling should be relatively stress free?

 

[Garvin]

Idling : It depends what sort of idling. Idling when up to temperature is not a particular problem for the oil but there is some effect on a lack of cylinder pressure not sealing the piston rings contributing to a higher amount of blow past but is minor unless regularly idling in traffic jams for long periods of time.

Problems with idling at start up is a hangover from the old carbytootered cars and old fashioned manual chokes. These grossly over fuelled the cars at start up and relied on the driver setting the choke correctly and winding it off properly which, of course, they never did. The result was lots of unburnt fuel in the cylinder bores washing off the oil resulting in increased wear which contaminated the oil together with unburnt fuel in the oil as well adding to the contamination. Automatic chokes helped the situation but it remained a problem.

This has all but been eradicated with modern fuel injection but there is still an effect but nowhere near what it was in days of yore.

When I first had the Mustang the oil change lamp first came on after 7 months and only 4k miles. I was perplexed until I realised that it had illuminated just before 12 months after it’s build date. I reset it and it never illuminated again and it had its oil change at the 12 month service after registration in the UK. Once it was reset at this point it only illuminated again as the 24 month period and second annual service approached and was ‘aligned’ with the 10k miles I put under its belt since the last service. I’m beginning to suspect that the algorithm has 12 months or 10k miles built into it as the ‘backstop’.

I also suspect that a lot of dealers are not resetting the service intervals during the PDI check which, in the UK, being many months after it’s build date resulting in an ‘early’ illumination of the oil change warning at the 12 month since build date. It gets reset but if the dealers have not reset the service interval at the first annual service a repeat performance probably occurs in the second year of ownership.

Perhaps I don’t rag the car often enough to ‘speed up’ the oil change warning but I’ve never been accused of driving slowly! It also does decent length journeys and rarely sits in traffic jams etc. Those who rag the cars with a lot of short journeys may see early oil change warnings. It would be interesting to hear of others experiences.

 

[tooley]

My light usually (Annoyingly ) comes on at around 9300 miles. I reset the message and crack on to 10000-ish then get it serviced. Seems ok so far. Admittedly I do a fair amount of long trips so it does stretch it's legs a lot. We'll see, I'm happy to be the guinea pig, 67000 miles now.
So far the engine hasn't missed a beat. Wish I could say the same for the brakes (discs and pads all round), tyres (lost count) and recently, windscreen which fell victim to a stone that actually dented it before the crack propagated across the half the width. Oh, and of course not to mention several thousand quid's worth of petrol

 

[Lowrider Lincoln]

I'd totally ignore the warning. Mine first came on at 900m, I change the oil at 1k anyway. Then came back on another 700m later, just pressed reset. I will change the oil a 1year intervals approx 4/5k for me.
Despite what you read from those worried about developing an engine tick. I personally think the best thing you can do to look after your engines is do first oil change at about 1k. Waiting until 10k is madness.

 

[Garvin]

Whereas changing the oil at or before 1k miles from new shouldn't. in theory, do any harm to the engine it is not madness to leave it in until the first annual service or 10k miles. Modern machining tolerances mean that the days of running in an engine with a lot of 'swarf' being generated are well and truly over. I continued to do such things but since the 90s I can't remember the last time I took a magnetic sump plug out during an early oil change and found it coated, even lightly, in that grey 'mush'!

As I stated earlier, BMWs and Audis are going 20k miles before first oil change and there isn't a plethora of warranty claims on engine failures that I know of. These days engines usually go on to outlive the life of the rest of the car!

Respect the service intervals, change the oil & filter regularly and use the correct specification of quality oil and all should be OK . . . . . . . . except for oil cooler failures and the like, but that a different story!

 

[v8hgt]

Agreed on the modern machining tolerance point.... in theory. However having seen the poor QC, driveline backlash, oil cooler sham, inconsistent panel gaps etc on the exterior I don’t trust ford to be any better in the parts I cannot see. With luck I am just overly cautious.

Sponsored