Race craft/heel toe help

[TopJimmyCooks]

I installed the Steeda pedal today.
https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-billet-heel-toe-gas-pedal-2015-555-1273.html
Best $25 spend. Can’t wait to use it on the track later this month!

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[Vettel-ish]

I installed the Steeda pedal today.
https://www.steeda.com/steeda-s550-mustang-billet-heel-toe-gas-pedal-2015-555-1273.html
Best $25 spend. Can’t wait to use it on the track later this month!

Website says does not work with 350? Is that true?

 

[TopJimmyCooks]

Website says does not work with 350? Is that true?

That stinks. Maybe you can get a good deal on trading your GT350 in on a GT?

 

[D K]

Learning h/t is actually really simple..

Follow a couple of rules and you can almost disregard all the rest...

1. A small blip is better than a big blip. Remember that forever.
2. You can practice h/t going 20mph. No need to be a hero at 100mph
3. Worry about your line and braking point first, then the actual blip. Even if you mis time the blip, you can still let the clutch out and make the turn. In other words, compromise your shift for the correct line, don't compromise your line for the shift.

 

[fatbillybob]

I still have one heel toe track and autox dual use car left and raced for decades on manual boxes. IMO HTD is all about I pedal position. If you can HTD well in the street the pedals will be wrong on the track. If you can HTD on the track you cannot do it on the street. This is because HTD pedal height is set up just about threshold braking for max efficiency. Also HTD is the 1st part. The second is transitioning to left foot braking so you can balance car and trail into corner.

 

[D K]

I dont know...

I learned to heel and tow in a formula ford a hundred years ago and have never looked back. I was fortunate that all the mechanics of driving came pretty easily for me (other things did not).

I always brake so that half of my foot is hanging off the right side of the pedal, whether I am h/t or not. Even automatic. Just a habit.
From that position, I can jump to h/t in a fraction of a second. I can do it barefoot, flip fops or tactical boots.

I still have one heel toe track and autox dual use car left and raced for decades on manual boxes. IMO HTD is all about I pedal position. If you can HTD well in the street the pedals will be wrong on the track. If you can HTD on the track you cannot do it on the street. This is because HTD pedal height is set up just about threshold braking for max efficiency. Also HTD is the 1st part. The second is transitioning to left foot braking so you can balance car and trail into corner.

 

[fatbillybob]

I dont know...

I learned to heel and tow in a formula ford a hundred years ago and have never looked back. I was fortunate that all the mechanics of driving came pretty easily for me (other things did not).

I always brake so that half of my foot is hanging off the right side of the pedal, whether I am h/t or not. Even automatic. Just a habit.
From that position, I can jump to h/t in a fraction of a second. I can do it barefoot, flip fops or tactical boots.

Formula Ford then you should know the most efficient HTD is when the brake is at Threshold and gas pedal about the same level so you can blip easy with the right side of your foot. Maybe your crew chief was so good he set the car up and you did not notice how perfect it was? You can HTD with miss matched pedals. It is just really awkward and near impossible for a newbie. So if a newbie wants to HTD get the pedal right.

 

[TeeLew]

Just so were all on the same page, racecraft and downshifting are 2 different things. Racecraft is the technique of racing. Downshifting, regardless of how you do it, is just part of driving.

 

[luc]

Heel and toe is way over rated and not really necessary
The purpose is to not lock the rear wheels on a downshift and using the clutch and being aware of rpms serve the same purpose
Been racing for over 30 years, won many races and never used heel and toe
More often because the type of cars I raced do not require using the clutch , except for coming out of the pits ( Hewland, Jericho, etc) or I just used the clutch
And btw, up shifting or downshifting a narrow gears Hewland on a Roush Trans-Am Mustang without using the clutch, require a lot of practice and being keenly aware of gears, speed, and rpms

 

[Elp_jc]

H/T (with the right part of the foot) requires pretty flexible heels, which I do not possess. Ha ha. So no way in hell I can do it without threshold braking, AND not in sport mode, since normal mode requires even more throttle distance. Glad my car came with auto rev-match. I just can't do it in normal mode, which is what I have to use in the city due to not having independent MagneRide adjustment.

 

[D K]

Ive had many students who are so focused on h/t that they forget how to drive...

In that case, it does more damage than good.

Thats why I said what I said.

 

[Grintch]

While practicing on the street is nice, I’ve found it not that helpful when it comes to track time. The brake pedal is at a substantially different height And pedal pressure on the street vs track.

heel-toe is a bit of a misnomer in my opinion. I’m a size 9 shoe and no pedal extensions. I press the brake with the left side “ball” of my foot and roll the right side of my foot to the throttle by rotating my ankle. My foot’ basically at a ~30 degree angle left of vertical.

one thing I’ve seen consistently as newer drivers downshift is doing it too early in the braking zone. I try to time it so I’m complete just before turn in and initiation of trail braking.

the advantage of waiting is you are lower in the rev range which allows you to be less precise with the rev match without upsetting the car and it puts less stress on synchros.

Back in the day, the standard pedal arrangement was different. Which is why heal & toe doesn't really fit what is done in a modern car. While practicing on the street isn't useless, as Satisfied and others mention it also isn't great to develop muscle memory, as the pedals are at different heights when not driving hard. But if you have little to no experience with heal & toe, it does help some. It is definitely easier to heal & toe on track vs the street. Another option for practice, especially race craft practice, is a racing sim. But obviously you need a pretty good 3 pedal + shifter setup, and need to drive a car that has a classic manual trans to get any useful shifting/heal toe practice. It also helps with learning the track(s).

 

[NeverSatisfied]

Ive had many students who are so focused on h/t that they forget how to drive...

In that case, it does more damage than good.

Thats why I said what I said.

Agreed, after watching your lap, just leave it in 4th or whatever.

Even if it means you’re lugging a bit out of a corner or banging the rev limiter momentarily on a long straight.

So much to take in when learning initially that downshifting can be a distraction from more important skills to work on.

 

[D K]

There are also different ways to heel and tow as well.

The traditional method is to pivot your right foot on its ball, but you can also practice by moving your entire foot to the right so some of it hangs off the brake pedal (which is what I do), so it becomes much less of an 'event' and more of complete braking manouver.

I encourage people to start by just downshifting when braking into a corner. Many people can't even do that smoothly, so it's a good first step.

Back in the day, the standard pedal arrangement was different. Which is why heal & toe doesn't really fit what is done in a modern car. While practicing on the street isn't useless, as Satisfied and others mention it also isn't great to develop muscle memory, as the pedals are at different heights when not driving hard. But if you have little to no experience with heal & toe, it does help some. It is definitely easier to heal & toe on track vs the street. Another option for practice, especially race craft practice, is a racing sim. But obviously you need a pretty good 3 pedal + shifter setup, and need to drive a car that has a classic manual trans to get any useful shifting/heal toe practice. It also helps with learning the track(s).

 

[boardkat]

FWIW, i've been using heel-toe for years, and it's been very effective for autox and slower track cars. now that i'm hitting top of 5th gear speeds though, and with my propensity to brake at the absolute threshold, the room for error is much smaller without suffering consequences. i just installed a xineering auto blip module so that i can focus entirely on braking now - although i'm still heel-toeing out of habit (but it just happens to always be the right amount of blip every time due to the module)

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