PP Worth It!?

[daltron]

I went back out to the dealer earlier in the week to purchase my fiancée's Fusion (We got a hell of a deal) and took out a GT with premium package. I loved the leather seats, enjoyed the sound system and great display. The cooled seats was a weird feeling. I can't say Ford got it right (it feels like I wet myself).

That being said, I was able to push the car a bit more on back roads. A few times I felt like I rocked the ship too hard, and was about to flip the damn thing. I truly felt the weight of the car, and relented to use the term 'boaty'. Understandably this is a big car, and that is to be expected. A lot of people have PP, and say it helps this.

So, I mentioned this to the sales person and he basically said it didn't change any of the driving dynamic. I shrugged off his response, as he really didn't seem to know a whole lot on it.

Can those with PP answer this? While I still haven't decided between an EB or GT, I'm definitely quite unsure about PP.

Yes, the PP is more than worth it for these points alone, in no particular order:

1) 6 piston Brembos with larger rotors
2) Larger radiator
3) 255/275 summer tires vs. 235 AS tires

That alone is A LOT of bang for the buck for $2,500 or whatever it costs now.

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[ForTehNguyen]

i still consider the underdamped PP shocks to be insufficient. Koni Yellows was a big upgrade. Was still worth the price for the staggered wheels (which I sold), the 6 pistons, torsen diff, PP front splitter, spoiler delete, radiator, etc. I also changed the sway bars. PP was $2500 I sold my used wheels for $850

 

[daltron]

i still consider the underdamped PP shocks to be insufficient. Koni Yellows was a big upgrade. Was still worth the price for the staggered wheels (which I sold), the 6 pistons, torsen diff, PP front splitter, spoiler delete, radiator, etc. I also changed the sway bars. PP was $2500 I sold my used wheels for $850

I forgot about the Torsen! +1.

 

[jasonstang]

More pistons means longer pads means more stopping force. You get less pad taper as well.

That is unless the shorter pads are under sized to be able to lock up.
The only time the PP brake pads performing better is under repetitive braking because it will keep cool longer.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

So what you're saying is...put the PP tires on the non-PP car, and you'll have the same exact stopping distance, right?

In real life, yes. In a controlled test, maybe not.

Obviously, if brakes are powerful enough to lock the wheels, having more bite or more easily locking the wheels is no help. On otherwise identical cars, the tires dictate the stopping distance. Feel and feedback can be a factor with threshold braking and the Brembos CAN be better for that.

BUT on the road, feedback and feel has no effect on minimum stopping distances.

If ABS is being engaged, that feel and feedback doesn't matter. ABS uses road and wheel speed to make its decisions; feel means nothing.

If ABS is turned off or somehow avoided, its a fool driving because it would be a lucky miracle to be able to stop faster on the road than with ABS because no matter how good the feedback and feel are, a human can NOT learn and react to the changing conditions under different tires fast enough to beat ABS and its real-time knowledge of wheel speeds compared to road speed.

On a track (or any magazine test venu), a good human can beat ABS but only when they have expert knowledge of the surface the tires are braking on. That's why racers practice before racing: to learn exactly how much braking is possible. So unless you repeatedly test emergency braking on the same day right before that bozo runs the red light, you will not outbrake ABS even if you are Lewis Hamilton.

Lost is right. The Brembos aren't going to let you stop sooner on the street other than whatever effect believing you can stop sooner might provide.

They are still well worth it on the street, because there is a lot between coasting and emergency stops. The better feel feels good.

 

[blk_5.0]

Have you guys arguing about the Brembos actually driven the cars back to back? When test driving 15s I took a non PP out for a test drive before i drove a PP with the brembos. After switching, I about buried my face in the dash the first time I had to brake for traffic. I then went back to my 14 non track pack and felt like I was burying the brake pedal to slow down a little bit.

Back to the OP - I daily a PP car and for me the wider wheels/tires, brakes (especially the brakes), and the Torsen and 3.73s made the package a no brainer. Not once have I wished I would've gotten the car without the PP (or my Recaros for that matter lol)

 

[Lost]

Have you guys arguing about the Brembos actually driven the cars back to back? When test driving 15s I took a non PP out for a test drive before i drove a PP with the brembos. After switching, I about buried my face in the dash the first time I had to brake for traffic. I then went back to my 14 non track pack and felt like I was burying the brake pedal to slow down a little bit.

Back to the OP - I daily a PP car and for me the wider wheels/tires, brakes (especially the brakes), and the Torsen and 3.73s made the package a no brainer. Not once have I wished I would've gotten the car without the PP (or my Recaros for that matter lol)

You're not getting it. It's the TIRES, not the brakes. And possibly the difference between the 14 and 15?

 

[mustang1]

The Brembo's up front alone are going to be the first thing you notice. You can actually stop it in a hurry.

The Brembo's are cool but if you live up north, the summer tires won't be as good as A/S in the cold, increasing the stopping distances. And the 19" tire sizes are rather expensive, so swapping them indirectly adds costs to the PP.

 

[HoosierDaddy]

Have you guys arguing about the Brembos actually driven the cars back to back? When test driving 15s I took a non PP out for a test drive before i drove a PP with the brembos. After switching, I about buried my face in the dash the first time I had to brake for traffic. I then went back to my 14 non track pack and felt like I was burying the brake pedal to slow down a little bit.

Of course, I drove both, many times.

You're not getting what I am saying, which is the Brembos won't stop you faster on the street than the regular brakes with equal tires. That is completely different than how hard you have to press the pedal.

Go take some more test drives (same tires but different brakes) and slam the brake pedal to the floor with both and you will stop in the same distance (within repeatability differences) with either one. Might be hard to find a non-Brembo with the same tires though.

And if you don't believe that ABS braking is the fastest way to stop on the random surface conditions of public roads, feel free to pull the ABS fuse and find out just how much farther it will take you to stop that way on your first try (you don't get do-overs for real-life red light runners).

I was responding just to a comment by someone who said a reason to get the Brembos was so you could stop shorter because of the Brembos. That's not true.

I would never choose the regular brakes over the Brembos, but not because the Brembos will do a better job keeping me from running into something on the street.

 

[MJS-P51]

PP is worth the extra $2,500 or so it costs....

/thread?

 

[BmacIL]

The Brembo's are cool but if you live up north, the summer tires won't be as good as A/S in the cold, increasing the stopping distances. And the 19" tire sizes are rather expensive, so swapping them indirectly adds costs to the PP.

This is the single largest reason I didn't get the PP. I DD this car and winter wheels and tires to fit over the Brembos are very expensive in comparison. I got my Blizzak WS-80s for about $500.

There's a decent amount of cost of ownership increase of the PP over the base:
$2500 up front
~$500 more every couple years for winter tires
~$700 for decent winter wheels that fit the Brembos
Plus some hard to determine amount more in fuel annually because of the 3.73's

I still have regrets though. The totally logical, rational part of me is happy with my choice, but every other part is kicking myself for not doing it.

 

[Ehdrian]

Regardless of stopping distances, the Brembos are WAY more efficient. The larger rotors and pads require much less clamping force and have a lot more surface area to slow to that much inertia down, increasing pedal feel/feedback as well. Less equals more in this instance. Less heat, less wear, less chance of lockup or fade (inconsistency). More than likely, on a DD with the PP, the wear and tear on the brakes will be minimal and probably last a relatively long time when compared to the non-PP.

Another added bonus here, is that all these PP add-ons come with a warranty. I'm sure we've all experienced headaches with the aftermarket parts that don't hold up, or work well together, costing time and money to chase and resolve issues.

Just offering a different perspective on the argument.

 

[Meraki Autoworks]

I think its worth it!

-Josh

 

[seth21w]

I daily drive mine thanks for the torsen info btw, and i was going to buy a base non pp but it sold and the only silver one left was a pp i had to have a light color, so it was only 1500 more after the autotrader price so i said wth...If only ford would offer the pp with torsen with 3.31 3.55 and 3.73 options that would be great!!

 

[ATLalien]

A telling stat:
Skidpad PP = .95g
Skidpad Non PP = .83

Not to mention, the PP does stop faster, whether that's due to tires, brakes, or whatever.

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