PP Brakes for Track & Daily

[chunter415]

Recently I was able to go to an all day track event near me learning how to drive on a track and then spending the afternoon with teachers helping me learn and damn was it fun! I was defiantly nervous with my brakes as I've heard that from other posts the stock PP Brembo brakes show fade at temp, and while I don't believe I noticed much I did notice a decent difference in pedal feel from before and after the track day. I'm wanting to do it again, but looking for some advice from those that have done track days. Do you believe I'd be okay getting another track day (15-20 min lapping sessions) with 3-4 intervals and about 20 min cool down between each session still utilizing the stock PP brakes? Or should I spend the money and upgrade to track focused pads, and if so will the rotors be okay with me switching out the pads for track day, then back for daily?

The track has a good amount of braking on it, Pacific Raceways in Kent Washington. At this point track days will probably only be 2-3 times per year, so while down the road I might upgrade rotors and pads I don't know I'm ready to go that far now though again looking for advice on what others have seen work well.

Thanks everyone, this is something I've been looking forward to doing with my Mustang and it handled wonderful, I know this will only be the start on upgrades!
2018 Mustang GT, PP1, 10 speed

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[luc]

You simply have the wrong pads for the track
The factory pads are not designed for medium to serious track work
With the correct pads, the pp braking system is fantastic

 

[chunter415]

That was my suspicion, do you have any suggestions for pads? Should I keep the rotors or replace them as well?

 

[WCRookie99]

Absolutely, the wrong pads. I would search this forum to find out what people use. Plus change your Brake fluid to Castrol SRF.

So, here's my take. Mustangs today are fast and even going 7/10th around a track, speeds are high. Most beginners braking technique are actually more dangerous as they brake like normal driving, which overheat the pads rotor and fluid by 2x.

Normal driving, when you approach a stop sign or sharp curve you put your foot on the brake, then as you get closer you press harder and harder and if speeds are high by the time you're close to the corner you're standing on the brake pedal. On a Race track if you do this for one or two laps, you will boil the stock fluid and cook the pads.

Proper technique for Braking on a Race track is actually the opposite of street driving. When approaching a turn (at speed) you press the brake pedal super firm first, then as you get closer to the corner you remove pressure from your foot.

Two thing happen, you're on the brakes for less time and as you turn into the corner the rotational inertia and friction of your tires slows the car down. Now this is something you need to built up to because if you try just slamming on the brakes and letting off and turning the car in the corner, chances are you'll spin out if you didn't scrub off enough speed.

So, caution, level head and situational awareness and slowly build up speed each session is recommended.

I would also get to know when and if the ABS kicks and how that effects your stopping.

Lastly, if you're just playing around on the track at 5/10th -7/10th max, I'm ok with a street car. However, if you (you I mean anyone) start getting faster, you're getting into the zone that I would buy a Track prepared Race Car with roll-cage. Why?

I've seen too many parts fail, that wined up a bad day. Brake fading, fluid boiling are the worst. Rear halfshafts or suspension breaking are next, front/rear hubs and bearings and even wheels cracking/breaking. How do you know how long these parts will last?

Race Teams catalog each part, x-ray for cracks and replace parts way before they fail. Also do a lot of testing. I know Track days aren't Racing but speeds are high with today's cars that stress on stock parts are super high.

Enjoy, have fun but keep it safe.

 

[NightmareMoon]

If thr brake feel has changed, you probably need to bleed the calipers to get dirty fluid and / or air bubbles out of there. Its possible you may have glazed some pad material but the knly way to check that is to pop a couple pads off and inspect the friction surface. If you haven’t touched the fluid yet then 100% flush it witha good track ready fluid like Motul 660 or SRF.

the PP pads are actually pretty good for beginners on track, but checking the pad surface for glazing would tell us more about the true condition after your track day.

 

[Dana Pants]

I trust the brake pad advice here: https://www.mustang6g.com/forums/threads/mach-1-handling-pack-autox-tt-update.160035/

My stock front pads broke into pieces with most of the material left.

 

[bnightstar]

The GT PP1 breaks are more than capable on the race track. I never experienced any brake fade with the OEM Pads and my track is brake heavy with 4 hard stops from 180 km down to 80 km from 140 down to 80 km and from 125 km down to 56 km (twice). If your break pedal is harder higher and breaks are not stopping this mean you boiled your fluid nothing to worry about as the OEM brake fluid is complete trash. I spend 2 season driving on the OEM pads + Motul RBF660 fluid and was very happy with them. The OEM pads are Ferodo DS2500.

So for your next track day I will just change the fluid with Motul RBF660. Monitor your break pads before an event and make sure to have at least 50% brake pad material. Also the oem break pads have wear indicators that are making annoying sound when your brake pads are worned down. I replaced 3 sets of OEM brake pads in 2 season's so it's normal but this are a consumable.

This season I decided I'm done with changing brake pads every 3 track days and bought GLoc R10/R8 so far I'm happy with them in fact they stop much more than DS2500 and looks like they are going to last a lot longer as I'm having trouble putting enough heat in them. I also installed braided brake lines to stop the fluid from boiling this also helped as I have 2 track days already and no change in brake pedal .

To sum it up:

1. Change fluid to ether Motul RBF600 or Castrol SRF
2. Monitor pads life when finished change with something more durable
3. Consider braided brakes and clutch lines

 

[AMC401V8]

I also installed braided brake lines to stop the fluid from boiling this also helped as I have 2 track days already and no change in brake pedal .

How does changing the brake lines to braided have an effect on fluid temperature? This is something I would like to understand. Thanks in advance for your reply.

 

[bnightstar]

How does changing the brake lines to braided have an effect on fluid temperature? This is something I would like to understand. Thanks in advance for your reply.

It help keeping the lines from expanding and since they are metal they keep temps in the fluid cooler as the metal is better heat sink than plastic.

 

[Ewheels]

It help keeping the lines from expanding and since they are metal they keep temps in the fluid cooler as the metal is better heat sink than plastic.

Braided lines do not do anything for keeping temps down. The heat is transferred from the friction between the pads and rotors through the caliper pistons and into your brake fluid. The material the lines are made of make no difference to temperatures.

The reason for braided lines are improved pedal feel, keeping the lines from expanding (which you mentioned correctly) and durability so the lines don't tear from heat and debris hitting them. Has nothing to do with cooling...

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