Options After Ringland Failure

[JoeyIsLifted]

Long story short I was doing some logging for an E85 tune after installing my fuel system and the car felt down on power then later on starting having a misfire on cylinder 8. I sent the log in and my tuner said they thought it was false knock and to log again. I started checking this forum and saw the ringland issues with cylinders 7 and 8. Did a compression test and came back with 70 on cylinder 8. I’m not 100% sure it’s ringland failure, but everything seems to line up. There was also a lot of blowby from the oil cap and PCV valves.

What are my options now? Do I NEED to buy a built block? Can I reuse my current block and just upgrade the internals? I currently have a Procharger setup, but will likely be switching over to ESS.

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[robvas]

Did you damage the cylinder walls?

 

[JoeyIsLifted]

Did you damage the cylinder walls?

Ah yeah I guess that would be helpful to know. In that case I would imagine it would be better to just buy a whole new block setup already built. I haven’t gotten a chance to get into the engine quite yet, so I’m not sure. I guess I was more so curious if it makes more sense to rebuild a gen 2 block if it’s not damaged vs buying a built gen 3 block from a company since I see most if not all companies use the gen 3 blocks now.

 

[robvas]

Cats?

 

[GregO]

Scope the bores and piston domes.
Report back with images or tear it down for inspection.
Gen 2 or Gen 3, I’d first be asking “what’s my budget” after I determine the level of internal damage.

 

[JoeyIsLifted]

Cats?

No cats

 

[mejohn50]

I have no idea how much power you’re making, would assume around 750-800whp seeing as you have boost and E85, and I have no idea what your goals are…but here’s my two cents. The following also assumes the heads aren’t damaged.

If you aren’t planning to go too far beyond ~800whp, and you’re looking for the most budget friendly option, I’d throw a stock gen 3 short block in the car and be done with it. They’re like $3500.

If you can bump the budget up a bit, an Alumintor will take you out to 1000whp pretty easily, maybe a bit farther, and they’re not terribly expensive either. I believe they’re around $5500.

If it were my car, my time, and my money, I wouldn’t mess around with trying to just throw rods and pistons in it. I think the stock gen 3 short block is the best “budget” option for someone in your situation. I also think the Aluminator is probably the best overall option if keeping power levels within the limits of the stock engine block.

 

[HKusp]

I would absolutely assume nothing at this point. Get the plugs out and scope the pistons and cylinder walls first. I have been there/done that and can guide you along the way if you'd like. I find it hard to believe you had a ringland failure on E85, but it is possible.

 

[JoeyIsLifted]

I have no idea how much power you’re making, would assume around 750-800whp seeing as you have boost and E85, and I have no idea what your goals are…but here’s my two cents. The following also assumes the heads aren’t damaged.

If you aren’t planning to go too far beyond ~800whp, and you’re looking for the most budget friendly option, I’d throw a stock gen 3 short block in the car and be done with it. They’re like $3500.

If you can bump the budget up a bit, an Alumintor will take you out to 1000whp pretty easily, maybe a bit farther, and they’re not terribly expensive either. I believe they’re around $5500.

If it were my car, my time, and my money, I wouldn’t mess around with trying to just throw rods and pistons in it. I think the stock gen 3 short block is the best “budget” option for someone in your situation. I also think the Aluminator is probably the best overall option if keeping power levels within the limits of the stock engine block.

Awesome. Thank you for the info. I would definitely rather buy once and not have to pull another engine, so I’m willing to spend more on something that’ll hold up better.

I started looking into the Aluminator just now and I can’t see anything related to the OPG/CSS. Do you know if they are good to go with this block or if I should swap them?

 

[JoeyIsLifted]

I would absolutely assume nothing at this point. Get the plugs out and scope the pistons and cylinder walls first. I have been there/done that and can guide you along the way if you'd like. I find it hard to believe you had a ringland failure on E85, but it is possible.

The car was brand new on E85. I’ve been running pump gas on the car for about a year now and just bought the fuel system. Didn’t even make it through all the E85 logging.

I plan to get a scope later today. I’ll upload some pictures when I can

 

[mejohn50]

Awesome. Thank you for the info. I would definitely rather buy once and not have to pull another engine, so I’m willing to spend more on something that’ll hold up better.

I started looking into the Aluminator just now and I can’t see anything related to the OPG/CSS. Do you know if they are good to go with this block or if I should swap them?

I’m not sure about the oil pump gears and timing sprocket. Someone with more knowledge than me will have to chime in on that.

 

[S550HPP]

Depends on budget I'd just rebuild then sell stock and buy someone else's built S550 for 50 cents on the dollars or a different car that has performance you want.

 

[robvas]

Awesome. Thank you for the info. I would definitely rather buy once and not have to pull another engine, so I’m willing to spend more on something that’ll hold up better.

I started looking into the Aluminator just now and I can’t see anything related to the OPG/CSS. Do you know if they are good to go with this block or if I should swap them?

It looks like the longblocks have upgraded opg

• Includes Ford Performance colder, heat range zero (0) spark plugs, M-12405-M50A
• Includes Ford Performance oil filter - M-6731-FL820
• Includes billet steel gerotor oil pump gears M-6600-M50A
• Vehicle harness and PCM not included. Use Ford Performance wiring, PCM and installation kit M-6017-M50B designed for manual transmission street rod/project car installation. Can also be equipped with automatic transmission controls pack - see M-6017-M50BA more information.
• Does not include alternator, for alternator kit see M-8600-M50BALT or M-8600-M50ALTA
• Engine mount bosses and bell housing mount pattern common to 4.6L modular engines
• Does not include exhaust manifolds

 

[noshine4mine]

This happened to me on the Dyno. I ended up getting the motor rebuilt by RPG (not the cheap route). They used my original crank, block and heads, but it went through the machining process for new sleeves.
what you described sounds exactly like what happened to me, but I was on pump gas. RPG sent the broken piston back and all it had was a couple of cracks in the ring land, it didn't actually break off any pieces, so probably saved the rest of the engine.
You should be able to get a rebuild of the current engine, but if you are going to do this, do it once. you will spend around 5k on the aluminator, that would go a long way to getting a motor built for boost. the aluminator is not "built for boost". It is tough but not like a purpose built motor.

 

[JoeyIsLifted]

This happened to me on the Dyno. I ended up getting the motor rebuilt by RPG (not the cheap route). They used my original crank, block and heads, but it went through the machining process for new sleeves.
what you described sounds exactly like what happened to me, but I was on pump gas. RPG sent the broken piston back and all it had was a couple of cracks in the ring land, it didn't actually break off any pieces, so probably saved the rest of the engine.
You should be able to get a rebuild of the current engine, but if you are going to do this, do it once. you will spend around 5k on the aluminator, that would go a long way to getting a motor built for boost. the aluminator is not "built for boost". It is tough but not like a purpose built motor.

How much did the rebuild with RPG cost? I see they sell a build gen 3 block for 7300 that’s good for 1200hp.

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