Not impressed with steeda clutch spring

[TexasRebel]

Well if your still having to pull out your pedal with the lighter spring like you state above, then your contradicting what your saying a bit. So like @Guarded15 said "better" would be an accurate word.

not really. The lighter spring holds the pedal out. The only time it gets stuck is if it stops on dead center (pivot point and spring ends are colinear; no moment on the pedal, the stock spring does the same). The difference is, when he takes his toe away, his pedal falls back down.

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[LIGHTNING350]

not really. The lighter spring holds the pedal out. The only time it gets stuck is if it stops on dead center (pivot point and spring ends are colinear; no moment on the pedal, the stock spring does the same). The difference is, when he takes his toe away, his pedal falls back down.

When I was going with no spring in for awhile, I too had about a quarter inch of slop at the top of the pedal. However unlike you I have never had any slop at the top or anywhere else with the steeda and most certainly none with the stock spring.
My car is a 2018 though, maybe that's the difference - hmmm..........

 

[smoke_wagon_6g]

LIGHTNING350 quantified better than I could so I will say no more there.

My personal opinion is that the clutch spring has zero to do with TOB longevity. I had my transmission out last month. Please consider the following:

.... I snipped out several excellent points ....

I am of your opinion. I also run the Steeda spring.

I also like that clutch feel is changeable, like the way steering feel is, and that we have an easy option.

Install FYI: get the absolute skinniest vise grips you can, and hope the coil position cooperates.

I also agree that there really is no reason to believe that changing out the stock spring should wear out anything at all.

The dual-clutch transmission is different than many are used to, and the stock spring is also quite different than anything most of us have driven in the past, so much so that it seems like it's risky to alter anything. And of course nobody wants to be on the hook for a clutch repair where the dealer voids the warranty due the customer "modding" or some excuse like that.

But frankly, short of clutch wear from riding the clutch on the highway or extensive slipping on hills, unless the clutch pedal actually has enough weight to partially disengage the clutch it's a lot of fuss over nothing. The pedal simply isn't doing what many believe it is doing. Pick what you like, or run nothing at all.

If I'm wrong, and honestly I've only successfully replaced only two clutches (Camaro and Maxima), I'd like some more technical people to enlighten us. I'm sure the forum like to know some actual reason for worry, not just speculation.

Steeda could maybe chip in with an explanation, since they sell the product and doubtlessly have considered the issue?

Nullius in Verba

 

[rebellovw]

LIGHTNING350 quantified better than I could so I will say no more there.

My personal opinion is that the clutch spring has zero to do with TOB longevity. I had my transmission out last month. Please consider the following:

1. The TOB/slave assembly has an internal spring that holds it with significant pressure to full extension. This means that the TOB is in constant contact with the pressure plate at all times by design. In my opinion it's safe to assume the TOB is designed for constant duty.

2. This spring pressure would actually work against the stock clutch spring (both ends of the system being pulled by springs to maximum extension.) If there is going to be a scenario where there is latent constant pressure on the seals. This is it. And this is the factory design. In my opinion it is safe to assume that the seals can withstand low constant pressure with out a decrease in service life.

3. The amount of line pressure the weight of the pedal produces with the spring removed is negligible and it's likely not even enough to overcome the seal friction in the system. This is demonstrated when you open the hydraulic system at the transmission. You don't get a gush of fluid from the master as the pedal lowers to a neutral position. In fact you get the opposite. When I opened the system it took 10-15 minutes for the first small drop of brake fluid to come out of the pedal/master side. I thought the QD fittings might be some kind of dry break at first. In my opinion it is safe to assume that with the clutch spring removed, latent pressure in the system is at or below stock levels.

4. People have been running with out a spring since 2015 and there hasn't been a rash of issues. In my opinion it is a safe assumption that If running with out a spring caused problems it would be forum wisdom by now.

I personally replaced my TOB, Clutch and Flywheel last month. It wasn't fun. If I thought there was any chance a lack of a $30 spring would cause me to have to go through that again prematurely, I would buy and install the spring. I am running springless and intend to continue doing so.

Good to know as today I tried to install the steeda spring but I couldn’t get the old one out without breaking a small piece off the top part. So I’m now running without the spring at all and am very happy with the feeling. I think I’ll keep it this way vs buying the heavy duty perch.

 

[Jetnoise]

A better option is just take the factory spring out if you want to try something different. No sense giving Steeda money for something you can do for free.

Bad advice unless your paying the tab...

 

[rebellovw]

Bad advice unless your paying the tab...

Care to explain?

 

[Jetnoise]

Care to explain?

The hydraulic system?
Or picking up the tab?

 

[rebellovw]

The hydraulic system?
Or you picking up the tab?

Yeah I’ve been reading and think I’ll play it safe and install the steeda spring and perch. Not worth taking a chance.

 

[Guarded15]

Bad advice unless your paying the tab...

You think that is bad advice because...? I'm going to guess because of that vendor that sells replacement springs.

So I am going to go crazy here, I am going to say the emperor is not wearing clothes.

1 .Many new Mustang owners have found that taking out the stock OE spring will give you somewhat similar results, but realistically the clutch becomes far too heavy especially if your Mustang is daily driven
My personal experience was that with the spring removed on the OE setup (PP, Clutch and Flywheel) it felt in the range of every other OE clutch I have driven. Hmm.. that doesn't mean much so let me list all the OE clutches I have driven in no particular order:
87 Toyota MR2
92 Toyota MR2
88 Honda Prelude
00 Mazda Miata
89 BMW 318is
94 Audi S4
93 Mazda RX-7
94 Mazda RX-7
95 Nissan 240SX
95 BMW M3
93 BMW 325is
05 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT
92 Subaru Legacy Turbo
02 Subaru WRX

I currently have an ACT HD Twin Disk in my 2015 GT and there are cars in that list with heavier OE clutches. I daily drive my car in city traffic. Unless you are exceptionally feeble, removing the OE spring will not change the clutch pedal weight to the point the car is uncomfortable to drive.

2. By negating your factory clutch assist spring you will notice chatter/NVH from your clutch pedal.
I have none. Based on my personal experience there was no change in NVH, there is no chatter. Being fairly mechanically inclined I can't even fathom how removing an assist spring would cause this.

3. Your clutch pedal will never fully return to stock position without any assist spring
Completely true, my pedal is about 1/4" lower than it was at the stock position. They didn't quantify it, I did though. There are zero drivability effects, and really this is not significant.

4. And over time your slave cylinder may begin leaking due to constant pressure on its seals from the clutch pedal not returning to the stock position.
On second read I realized a lawyer must have written this statement. Everybody reads this and thinks leaking=permanent damage=slave cylinder replacement. But that isn't what is said at all. For starters, how is the .01psi of line pressure (this is hyperbole, I have not quantified the line pressure) the clutch pedal will develop resting against the master going to damage seals? Is it going to push them gradually out of place? is it going to deform them? Obviously not, it doesn't have enough energy to harm them or displace them, how do I know this? Because the working pressure is orders of magnitude beyond this static line pressure, there is no way the seals could withstand that through thousands of cycles yet be so fragile as to be displaced or damaged by a clutch pedal assembly resting against the master. Again, I opened my clutch hydraulic system two months ago, fluid didn't spurt out like a punctured artery when I opened it, barely anything came out. The absolutely worst a tiny amount of static line pressure can do is barely pressurize the hydraulic fluid so that the seals could weep slightly. But even that is a stretch and it is disclaimed with the word may.

So please tell me how removing the clutch assist spring is going to harm anything. Somebody, anybody, can you provide evidence or an original thought?

 

[LIGHTNING350]

You think that is bad advice because...? I'm going to guess because of that vendor that sells replacement springs.

So I am going to go crazy here, I am going to say the emperor is not wearing clothes.

1 .Many new Mustang owners have found that taking out the stock OE spring will give you somewhat similar results, but realistically the clutch becomes far too heavy especially if your Mustang is daily driven
My personal experience was that with the spring removed on the OE setup (PP, Clutch and Flywheel) it felt in the range of every other OE clutch I have driven. Hmm.. that doesn't mean much so let me list all the OE clutches I have driven in no particular order:
87 Toyota MR2
92 Toyota MR2
88 Honda Prelude
00 Mazda Miata
89 BMW 318is
94 Audi S4
93 Mazda RX-7
94 Mazda RX-7
95 Nissan 240SX
95 BMW M3
93 BMW 325is
05 Subaru Legacy 2.5GT
92 Subaru Legacy Turbo
02 Subaru WRX

I currently have an ACT HD Twin Disk in my 2015 GT and there are cars in that list with heavier OE clutches. I daily drive my car in city traffic. Unless you are exceptionally feeble, removing the OE spring will not change the clutch pedal weight to the point the car is uncomfortable to drive.

2. By negating your factory clutch assist spring you will notice chatter/NVH from your clutch pedal.
I have none. Based on my personal experience there was no change in NVH, there is no chatter. Being fairly mechanically inclined I can't even fathom how removing an assist spring would cause this.

3. Your clutch pedal will never fully return to stock position without any assist spring
Completely true, my pedal is about 1/4" lower than it was at the stock position. They didn't quantify it, I did though. There are zero drivability effects, and really this is not significant.

4. And over time your slave cylinder may begin leaking due to constant pressure on its seals from the clutch pedal not returning to the stock position.
On second read I realized a lawyer must have written this statement. Everybody reads this and thinks leaking=permanent damage=slave cylinder replacement. But that isn't what is said at all. For starters, how is the .01psi of line pressure (this is hyperbole, I have not quantified the line pressure) the clutch pedal will develop resting against the master going to damage seals? Is it going to push them gradually out of place? is it going to deform them? Obviously not, it doesn't have enough energy to harm them or displace them, how do I know this? Because the working pressure is orders of magnitude beyond this static line pressure, there is no way the seals could withstand that through thousands of cycles yet be so fragile as to be displaced or damaged by a clutch pedal assembly resting against the master. Again, I opened my clutch hydraulic system two months ago, fluid didn't spurt out like a punctured artery when I opened it, barely anything came out. The absolutely worst a tiny amount of static line pressure can do is barely pressurize the hydraulic fluid so that the seals could weep slightly. But even that is a stretch and it is disclaimed with the word may.

So please tell me how removing the clutch assist spring is going to harm anything. Somebody, anybody, can you provide evidence or an original thought?

Good post man. I agree with everything you said. I also agree with one very key point you didn't touch on in this post but in an earlier post.

" 4. People have been running with out a spring since 2015 and there hasn't been a rash of issues. In my opinion it is a safe assumption that If running with out a spring caused problems it would be forum wisdom by now."
- I think that statement is key brother and your absolutely right. -

Steeda is a great company but like any other company there going to have selling antics and gimmicks to sell there product. Writing things like running no spring may damage your slave cylinder will only amplify in selling there product. I love the fact they use the word may and do not support it with any factual proof.

At first I liked the steeda, convincing myself like many others that it is such an upgrade over the stock spring. Fast forward now a thousand or so miles later and I put the stock spring back in. I find the steeda spring not to have a more linear feel. To me it basically has the same bite of engagement and feel as the stock one only in a non dual spring way. What I come to not like about the steeda is half way through the release I feel that it ejects your foot off the clutch making some shifts not so smooth.
I personally like no spring the best and it is thee most linear. It is also the most like other previous older gen mustangs that I have owed (total of 10 now) and driven. The only reason I rock the stock is that I find it incredibly light and just excellent for daily driving. That and you really do get use to it if you just give it a chance and put some miles on it. I can assure you I didn't put the stock back in because I'm afraid of some catastrophic blow out or failure, lol lol. ....

With all that said I really I'm liking the stock again but if I feel like a change again, It will definitely be with no spring. As for the steeda, it sits in the bottom of one of my tool boxes for now but in time I'm sure it will make it's way to the trash.
However like steeda says its only 20 bucks to try it. There absolutely right, twenty bucks is my big blind every orbit when I play poker on tuesday's.

 

[Jetnoise]

Don’t go crazy ...not worth it.
Can you think of any other systems on the car that are influenced by clutch pedal position?

 

[TexasRebel]

Good post man. I agree with everything you said. I also agree with one very key point you didn't touch on in this post but in an earlier post.

" 4. People have been running with out a spring since 2015 and there hasn't been a rash of issues. In my opinion it is a safe assumption that If running with out a spring caused problems it would be forum wisdom by now."
- I think that statement is key brother and your absolutely right. -

Steeda is a great company but like any other company there going to have selling antics and gimmicks to sell there product. Writing things like running no spring may damage your slave cylinder will only amplify in selling there product. I love the fact they use the word may and do not support it with any factual proof.

At first I liked the steeda, convincing myself like many others that it is such an upgrade over the stock spring. Fast forward now a thousand or so miles later and I put the stock spring back in. I find the steeda spring not to have a more linear feel. To me it basically has the same bite of engagement and feel as the stock one only in a non dual spring way. What I come to not like about the steeda is half way through the release I feel that it ejects your foot off the clutch making some shifts not so smooth.
I personally like no spring the best and it is thee most linear. It is also the most like other previous older gen mustangs that I have owed (total of 10 now) and driven. The only reason I rock the stock is that I find it incredibly light and just excellent for daily driving. That and you really do get use to it if you just give it a chance and put some miles on it. I can assure you I didn't put the stock back in because I'm afraid of some catastrophic blow out or failure, lol lol. ....

With all that said I really I'm liking the stock again but if I feel like a change again, It will definitely be with no spring. As for the steeda, it sits in the bottom of one of my tool boxes for now but in time I'm sure it will make it's way to the trash.
However like steeda says its only 20 bucks to try it. There absolutely right, twenty bucks is my big blind every orbit when I play poker on tuesday's.

Not sure if it's an '18 thing or a GT350 thing, but the stock springs aren't all dual coils.

 

[TexasRebel]

Don’t go crazy ...not worth it.
Can you think of any other systems on the car that are influenced by clutch pedal position?

1. Cruise control
2. No Lift Shift (with FRPP2)

 

[Nghtshd88]

Had this perch/spring for about 3.5k miles and have had a bad squeak/noise a few hundred post install to the point where the pedal was getting harder to depress recently on starts.

Took a look today and the perch shaft is digging into itself and marred. Way beyond needing grease. Maybe just bad luck but end of the day wasnt worth it. Maybe if the quality had been better.

 

[500PLUS]

I have installed the steeda spring bit tricky on right hand drive car
It feels great not so much worry at traffic lights and in traffic on a slope
All round driving the car is much better
But I do have a bit of a loose feel when pedal is back up
Nothing major
How can I stretch the spring as mentioned above?
And is that the best solution to the problem

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