No gains with E85, Car Slow AF

[tdstuart]

A little rant post... saw no gains with e85, car is slow, and Lund says it's okay.

2015 Mustang GT Premium 6r80 3.15diff Full Weight N/A.
Gen3 Coyote Shortblock, Gen2 Coyote Heads, 12.1:1 CR.
Comp cams stage 3 N/A Cams.
Catless headers, ported 2018 IM, stock throttle body, JLT 120mm cai, 47lb inj.
Lund tuned.

Just rebuilt the engine after a spun bearing. Same setup as the last engine. The previous engine was running 9.3-9.4 in about 50*F weather at 1000 DA ish, don't know how well that compares to these conditions.

Here is what Lund's response was:

How is a track going to differ from my draggy... if anything the draggy should be more consistent as I don't have to worry about a launch. And ofc the times will be a little different... but I am seeing 0 gain from e85, actually was running faster sometimes on 91... Also "no car is going to run well mid summer", ya im not expecting record breaking times Im expecting gains.

Also yes the car needs a different manifold and taller gears. I will be testing out a custom-ported boss and bigger throttle body soon. My point is that the car is 12:1+ CR with only port injection, it should love the higher octane fuel.

Logs are attached in zip, containing the 2 e85 logs corresponding to the draggy runs + a random 91 log I did.

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[tdstuart]

Old motor in better weather for reference.

 

[Proshop]

Hate to say it, but your comparing apples to oranges when it comes to the previous temps and DA. Now had the temp and DA been very similar you would have a legitimate beef… but unfortunately you don’t. Stop wasting your time on n/a and boost the damn thing already!

 

[tdstuart]

Hate to say it, but your comparing apples to oranges when it comes to the previous temps and DA. Now had the temp and DA been very similar you would have a legitimate beef… but unfortunately you don’t. Stop wasting your time on n/a and boost the damn thing already!

I am comparing my 91 octane run and e85 runs... They show very similar temps and da.

 

[SolarFlare]

You don’t need gears you need a proper converter on that 6r80. Would not surprise me if you got within a couple tenth of the 57* run at the current mid 80s temp with one. Gears and converter would be the most improvement.

 

[Proshop]

I am comparing my 91 octane run and e85 runs... They show very similar temps and da.

I don’t have my laptop on me to download your files but what timing and iat’s are you running on 91 vs e85?

 

[furdfan2018]

He gave you 2-3* more timing under WOT conditions on E85.

There is no magic with e85.. you get more timing or more boost, or both vs. gasoline.

Weather sucks right now

 

[tdstuart]

You don’t need gears you need a proper converter on that 6r80. Would not surprise me if you got within a couple tenth of the 57* run at the current mid 80s temp with one.

Interested on why the converter over gears. My thought process is that since its a roll a converter won't do much but gears will help me stay in the higher rpm.

4.10 seems to be the most optimal but I think 3.73 would also help a lot.

Here is some speeds with different gear ratios.
3.15:

3.55:

3.73:

4.10:

 

[tdstuart]

He gave you 2-3* more timing under WOT conditions on E85.

There is no magic with e85.. you get more timing or more boost, or both vs. gasoline.

Weather sucks right now

The weather does suck especially in Arizona. This was at 3am and temps still 85+.

Maybe you are right. I just expected a noticeable difference on my car especially with the higher compression ratio. Does the timing look correct for E85?

 

[Dave2013M3]

Did you have the Stg3 cams before the rebuild? Those cams will like some gear. Also look at the DA for the new runs at 3941ft., while the previous runs were at 931DA. Thats going to affect performance in a big way. Your car now thinks its at darn near 4kft. elevation. At that DA I don't think the E85 is going to help you as there isn't enough oxygen in the air to take advantage of it.

 

[tdstuart]

Did you have the Stg3 cams before the rebuild? Those cams will like some gear.

Yep the rebuild is the same setup. I’m sure a lot of the loss in time is due to da and air temps. I am more focused on the E85 not making my times any quicker.

 

[Dave2013M3]

Yep the rebuild is the same setup. I’m sure a lot of the loss in time is due to da and air temps. I am more focused on the E85 not making my times any quicker.

Sorry I edited that post to include the differrence in the DA, huge difference.

 

[tdstuart]

I had another tuner review the logs and they said the logs look good and car should be running faster. Idk then. Maybe I’ll try tonight and it will run faster?

 

[Dave2013M3]

I had another tuner review the logs and they said the logs look good and car should be running faster. Idk then. Maybe I’ll try tonight and it will run faster?

Yea your current DA's at 3941ft. is killing horsepower.

 

[Cory S]

Yea your current DA's at 3941ft. is killing horsepower.

THIS…..^^^^^^^

3000’ DA increase is almost a 10% DECREASE in power. That could be as much as 47-50hp………. There’s your missing 1 second on the 60-130 EXACTLY.

I’ve compared my setup with 300 DA to 3200DA. I lose almost 100hp….

Also, could have been a different amount of fuel in your tank. The difference between an 1/8th tank and full tank is 85 POUNDS it about .2-.3 on a 60-130 ET…..:.

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