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My experience shopping for a sports car in this segment (and why I'm leaning GT350)

brokenblinker

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I used to ride motorcycles all of the time. When my wife and I started thinking about kids, I sold the bikes and got a 2007 Corvette. I drove that for about a year until my kiddo was about to be born (needed to get a family car, we were buying a house, etc.)

When my daughter was ~6 months old, I decided to look for a fun compromise car that was affordable and ended up with a single owner 2012 Golf R with quite a bit of work done making ~360 HP. While its pretty quick, it comes with a few downsides. 1) I'll need to return it to stock for the latest California smog rules in a year or so and 2) it just really isn't that much fun when not driving fast.

With that said, I've started looking around for a fun sports car. I plan to sell the Golf, get the cheapest commuter car that runs, and get a sports car that is more of an "experience". Towards that end, I've driven a few different cars targeting something with a hard cap of <$60K. The following is a list of cars that I've driven trying to find the right one for me (in order of my experience).

2018 M2 Thankfully, the dealer didn't give me a hard time about test driving it (only dealer car in this list). This car seemed like general fun, but it was still too much of a compromise for what I am looking for at this time. It didn't feel as raucous as I was hoping. Its interior at 3yrs and 20K miles was not as nice as my Golf's at 9 years and 110K miles. The engine wasn't all THAT exciting (I hear maybe the competition or CS would be better in that department?) and while the power/speed isn't what it is all about for me, it didn't feel any faster than the Golf R. Unfortunately, it was a shortish shared test drive, so I didn't get a chance to feel the limits of the playful handling dynamics that people talk about.

2017 GT350 I rented this on Turo for a full day with unlimited miles and had a wonderful 500 mile joyride through tons of twisties. The engine is everything I have heard it would be and more. What a joyous machine to drive. The shifter is perfect. The engine revs to the moon, but the best part is how much character it has between 3-6K RPM. It doesn't make a ton of power at 3K, but sounds good enough that I was just constantly upshifting so I could rifle rev matched downshifts into every corner. The handling was sublime. Only negative is...its a big car. On the tightest roads it just feels like it barely fits. Weight was less of an issue, it was well composed, but it was hard to get over the pure size. I still have dreams about the engine note and just the fantastic feeling you get when driving it.

2016 Corvette Z51 What an incredible machine from a technical perspective. This much performance, in this cheap a car, with this (kinda) nice interior. I was really impressed, but could tell it wasn't for me by about mile 5 of my 100 mile twisty test drive. This car is fast...its just not very engaging when not pushing super hard. The interior is nice, the engine is...robust and strong and flat torqued and...just not that exciting honestly (to me, I understand it is great for many). I left this test drive feeling like the car was incredible and better than the GT350, but far less fun.

2006 BOE Supercharged Lotus Elise Test drove this car and loved it. Committed to buying it as soon as it was smogged. Then Cali changed the smog rules the next day and the car could no longer be smogged. He sold it out of state. This was an awesome machine. I have no driving downside to mention (getting in and out is a chore, but definitely was part of the "experience" I was looking for). Only downside to this one was the questionable safety (I got out of motorcycling for a reason after all). Since this car, Lotus Elise prices are going insane, so I think I've kind of put my interest in it on hold for a bit.

Factory Five 818 Test drove this car and was underwhelmed. The pedal placement wasn't great. The 350WHP in a 2000lb car was awesome...until the diff blew up on my test drive (I never launched or even got on the throttle more than 50%). I was stranded with no cell phone coverage, eventually stopped a bicyclist that lent me his cell phone and was able to get picked up. Credit to the owner who didn't blame me (I mean I wasn't in any way at fault, but I could imagine it is frustrating to be in that situation). I still debated buying it off the guy at a lower price and taking the project of finding another diff, but decided the safety aspects made that not worth it probably.

So where am I now? I'm leaning towards the GT350. I can't get the experience of cruising down twisty roads right in that 45-60mph range and doing the 3rd->2nd downshift over and over. It feels like the car has auto rev matching (it doesn't) because its just so dang repeatable and reliable. We'll see where the urge takes me in the next month or two, looking to finally pull the trigger.
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Postal Bob

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What do you find too "big" about the car? The length, width, or both?
The GT350 has a high hood, which from the drivers seat, gives the impression of a long front. But if anything, I find the car small, and low. When I'm behind most cars on the road, I can't always see around them.
 

CarbonZ

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Pretty wide range of cars your looking at. Before I decided on the GT350 I was thinking of building a FF kit. Either Daytona or 818. Then moved to the Ultima RS idea but quickly priced myself out of that option. About 120k with my desired options, but kinda wish I had just went for that. Would have been such a fun project/car.

Really happy with the GT350 though and have no regrets. Still thinking of building a kit in the next couple years though just cause I really want to tackle a project like that. I'm not sure id ever buy another guy's kit car. Way too many unknowns.

How was the seating position in the 818? Pedals could be adjusted/ swapped.. just curious as to the overall feel. I've never sat in one.

Good luck in your search
 

Inthehighdesert

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I can see how you think a 350 is big going from a Golf. My daily is F550 with a 12ā€™ bed so everything seems small in comparison, even my lifted 250. Lol There arenā€™t many cars that are as engaging as a 350, thatā€™s for sure.
 

Strokerswild

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Great, now you have me thinking about an 818 again.

Fascinating possibilities there if done properly ($$$).
 

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brokenblinker

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What do you find too "big" about the car? The length, width, or both?
The GT350 has a high hood, which from the drivers seat, gives the impression of a long front. But if anything, I find the car small, and low. When I'm behind most cars on the road, I can't always see around them.
I think the car is quite big for a sports car (and quite heavy). I'm not knocking it -> I think its super impressive what they have done on the platform, but I found it less fun than my Golf R on some of the super tight and twisty mountain road (where the speed limit is like 25 mph).

Overall, the experience was awesome, but I'd be lying if this wasn't one of the reasons I haven't abandoned all reason and jumped in right away. I still think it will end up being the choice for me, but it is nowhere near as fun on a 30mph road as the Elise, for example. (Even though the elise only makes 180hp).
 
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brokenblinker

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Pretty wide range of cars your looking at. Before I decided on the GT350 I was thinking of building a FF kit. Either Daytona or 818. Then moved to the Ultima RS idea but quickly priced myself out of that option. About 120k with my desired options, but kinda wish I had just went for that. Would have been such a fun project/car.

Really happy with the GT350 though and have no regrets. Still thinking of building a kit in the next couple years though just cause I really want to tackle a project like that. I'm not sure id ever buy another guy's kit car. Way too many unknowns.

How was the seating position in the 818? Pedals could be adjusted/ swapped.. just curious as to the overall feel. I've never sat in one.

Good luck in your search

This one was pretty well done overall I think. It had Wilwood non-boosted brakes that worked great. however, the clutch was SUPER heavy, the brake pedal was 1-2 inches above the gas (making it impossible to heel-toe), and the shifter was the most ridiculously short throws ever. It was almost like it didn't move at all and just operated by pressure. The amount of actual motion for the throw was less than the mechanical motion that was part of the linkage.

Overall, fueling and pedals and shifter just didn't hit that perfect telepathic nature the GT350 hits.
 

stanglife

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I think the 350 is 10 inches longer than a 992 911, so it's a little bigger but by todays sports car standards, it's in the range, IMO.

I've seen your post for cargurus values. I see they have a separate trim for R, so I'd be curious to see what they say is happening there but I don't put a ton of stock in it as they say a 2020 R should private sale at $63k and trade in at $47k...they are clearly either detached from the actual market or they are just working for the dealers (guess which one I think it is!) :)

To your question... Since you're a VAG fan - I've owned 2 B7 RS4s and a 19 RS3. Was a mistake to sell my last RS4, fantastic sedan. The RS3...was super fast. E85 tune and a few bolt-ons would Draggy at 11.0 in the heat of Florida Summer...but the car got boring pretty quickly...understeer is insane, even worse than the RS4, IMO - I'm not sure if I would still have it or not if Covid hadn't come along. All of this to say - Check out the new RS3 - it's said to have mostly eliminated the understeer.

PS - 981 GT4 prices took a little dive with the new ones being out.
 

honeybadger

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Any reason a Miata isn't on your list? You can drive those things at full tilt practically anywhere and you're still within the speed limit or close to it. Massively underrated street car.
 
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brokenblinker

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I think the 350 is 10 inches longer than a 992 911, so it's a little bigger but by todays sports car standards, it's in the range, IMO.

I've seen your post for cargurus values. I see they have a separate trim for R, so I'd be curious to see what they say is happening there but I don't put a ton of stock in it as they say a 2020 R should private sale at $63k and trade in at $47k...they are clearly either detached from the actual market or they are just working for the dealers (guess which one I think it is!) :)

To your question... Since you're a VAG fan - I've owned 2 B7 RS4s and a 19 RS3. Was a mistake to sell my last RS4, fantastic sedan. The RS3...was super fast. E85 tune and a few bolt-ons would Draggy at 11.0 in the heat of Florida Summer...but the car got boring pretty quickly...understeer is insane, even worse than the RS4, IMO - I'm not sure if I would still have it or not if Covid hadn't come along. All of this to say - Check out the new RS3 - it's said to have mostly eliminated the understeer.

PS - 981 GT4 prices took a little dive with the new ones being out.
That's odd. When I put in a 2020 GT350R with low miles, it tells me $80K+

I'm not a super VW fan, just found a 360HP, single owner well taken care of, Golf R for 15K, so it was kind of a steal. I've been impressed with the vehicle overall, but it does lack a bit of soul.
 

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brokenblinker

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Any reason a Miata isn't on your list? You can drive those things at full tilt practically anywhere and you're still within the speed limit or close to it. Massively underrated street car.
Its a fair question. I've been looking for cars that are all about the experience. In addition to barely fitting in past miatas I've driven (admittedly, never an ND), they were great cars, but I have a feeling you could forget about it while driving to the grocery store.

That's my current problem. My car is fun, but only when pushing it really hard.
 

JR369

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I used to ride motorcycles all of the time. When my wife and I started thinking about kids, I sold the bikes and got a 2007 Corvette. I drove that for about a year until my kiddo was about to be born (needed to get a family car, we were buying a house, etc.)

When my daughter was ~6 months old, I decided to look for a fun compromise car that was affordable and ended up with a single owner 2012 Golf R with quite a bit of work done making ~360 HP. While its pretty quick, it comes with a few downsides. 1) I'll need to return it to stock for the latest California smog rules in a year or so and 2) it just really isn't that much fun when not driving fast.

With that said, I've started looking around for a fun sports car. I plan to sell the Golf, get the cheapest commuter car that runs, and get a sports car that is more of an "experience". Towards that end, I've driven a few different cars targeting something with a hard cap of <$60K. The following is a list of cars that I've driven trying to find the right one for me (in order of my experience).

2018 M2 Thankfully, the dealer didn't give me a hard time about test driving it (only dealer car in this list). This car seemed like general fun, but it was still too much of a compromise for what I am looking for at this time. It didn't feel as raucous as I was hoping. Its interior at 3yrs and 20K miles was not as nice as my Golf's at 9 years and 110K miles. The engine wasn't all THAT exciting (I hear maybe the competition or CS would be better in that department?) and while the power/speed isn't what it is all about for me, it didn't feel any faster than the Golf R. Unfortunately, it was a shortish shared test drive, so I didn't get a chance to feel the limits of the playful handling dynamics that people talk about.

2017 GT350 I rented this on Turo for a full day with unlimited miles and had a wonderful 500 mile joyride through tons of twisties. The engine is everything I have heard it would be and more. What a joyous machine to drive. The shifter is perfect. The engine revs to the moon, but the best part is how much character it has between 3-6K RPM. It doesn't make a ton of power at 3K, but sounds good enough that I was just constantly upshifting so I could rifle rev matched downshifts into every corner. The handling was sublime. Only negative is...its a big car. On the tightest roads it just feels like it barely fits. Weight was less of an issue, it was well composed, but it was hard to get over the pure size. I still have dreams about the engine note and just the fantastic feeling you get when driving it.

2016 Corvette Z51 What an incredible machine from a technical perspective. This much performance, in this cheap a car, with this (kinda) nice interior. I was really impressed, but could tell it wasn't for me by about mile 5 of my 100 mile twisty test drive. This car is fast...its just not very engaging when not pushing super hard. The interior is nice, the engine is...robust and strong and flat torqued and...just not that exciting honestly (to me, I understand it is great for many). I left this test drive feeling like the car was incredible and better than the GT350, but far less fun.

2006 BOE Supercharged Lotus Elise Test drove this car and loved it. Committed to buying it as soon as it was smogged. Then Cali changed the smog rules the next day and the car could no longer be smogged. He sold it out of state. This was an awesome machine. I have no driving downside to mention (getting in and out is a chore, but definitely was part of the "experience" I was looking for). Only downside to this one was the questionable safety (I got out of motorcycling for a reason after all). Since this car, Lotus Elise prices are going insane, so I think I've kind of put my interest in it on hold for a bit.

Factory Five 818 Test drove this car and was underwhelmed. The pedal placement wasn't great. The 350WHP in a 2000lb car was awesome...until the diff blew up on my test drive (I never launched or even got on the throttle more than 50%). I was stranded with no cell phone coverage, eventually stopped a bicyclist that lent me his cell phone and was able to get picked up. Credit to the owner who didn't blame me (I mean I wasn't in any way at fault, but I could imagine it is frustrating to be in that situation). I still debated buying it off the guy at a lower price and taking the project of finding another diff, but decided the safety aspects made that not worth it probably.

So where am I now? I'm leaning towards the GT350. I can't get the experience of cruising down twisty roads right in that 45-60mph range and doing the 3rd->2nd downshift over and over. It feels like the car has auto rev matching (it doesn't) because its just so dang repeatable and reliable. We'll see where the urge takes me in the next month or two, looking to finally pull the trigger.
No mention if the Z51 was even a manual? They're great in a manual. Still only about 3/4ths the car my R is.
 

honeybadger

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Its a fair question. I've been looking for cars that are all about the experience. In addition to barely fitting in past miatas I've driven (admittedly, never an ND), they were great cars, but I have a feeling you could forget about it while driving to the grocery store.

That's my current problem. My car is fun, but only when pushing it really hard.
Assuming you're not looking to break the speed limit every time you drive, you're describing where an ND shines (especially 180 hp one). They're literally fun everywhere you go since you can drive like a mad man and not piss anyone off or put others at risk. They're just very sexy looking and they don't sound too great. But everything else is a 10/10, IMHO.
 
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brokenblinker

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No mention if the Z51 was even a manual? They're great in a manual. Still only about 3/4ths the car my R is.
It was a manual. Sorry, that's a must for me (reason I haven't just gotten on an order for a C8). I have nothing against auto cars, but my whole purpose is for something engaging.

I thought it was great, just not as much fun or character-ful as the GT350.
 

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+1 on the Miata if youā€™re looking for something engaging. You enjoyed the Lotus probably due to a similar ā€˜feelā€™, size, etc. Iā€™d suggest the Alfa Romeo 4C as well if youā€™re looking for more of that. At less than 2,500 lbs. and 247 HP, itā€™s a little rocket. An ECU swap and youā€™re looking at nearly 300 HP. What makes it so engaging is the cf tub, lack of power steering, a narrow power band, and well, the Italian factor. Itā€™s the closest thing to a go-kart Iā€™ve ever driven and puts a smile on my face every time I get in it. Oh, and itā€™s stunning to look at in person. The potential negative for you, which I thought would be an issue for me initially is the fact that itā€™s not a manual. The F1 gearbox matched with its power delivery however really is ideal and when in manual mode, is still very engaging. Just thought Iā€™d mention it but Iā€™m not familiar with what California is doing NOW in regard to emissionsā€¦I left four years ago soā€¦good luck on your search
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