Mustang's 5.0L engine more impressive than Ferrari V12? So says Engineering Explained

[engineermike]

Ferrari 458 and Speciale added. Interesting that the 458 and Speciale both come up just shy of the early 5.4 gt500 (500 hp model).

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[engineermike]

For the record, the highest bmep I’ve found in a semi-mass produced oem application is the Mercedes cla45 at nearly 30 bar. Compression ratio is 8.6/1. Coming in second place is the Ford GT 3.5 at 26 bar and 9/1 compression. The Ferrari F40 was just behind it at 25 bar, and the F40 did it without the benefit of GDI. It was able to achieve this due to 7.7/1 compression.

 

[zero_chance]

Good stuff in there. Some nice engineering substitutions. That's about the only metric the Gen 3 Coyote is more impressive the Ferrari Superfast's V12. That thing makes 121 hp/liter. The gen 3 coyote in the regular GT? 92 hp/liter. The Bullitt Coyote is pretty darn decent at 96 hp/liter. Torque is nice, but torque at high rpms (i.e., high hp engines) wins races. Which is why the Ferrari 812 Superfast traps 138 mph in the 1/4 mile.

Aside from the gay name Ferrari chose for that vehicle, you can grab an off the shelf V8 Mustang of your choosing, it’ll already look better (my opinion), you can make it infinitely faster, better at handling and any other metric you want to compare between the two, buy a decent sized house with a garage to park it in, and still have spent less than going the Ferrari route. And don’t even get me started on the cost of maintaining the Ferrari.

 

[speedfrk]

Aside from the gay name Ferrari chose for that vehicle, you can grab an off the shelf V8 Mustang of your choosing, it’ll already look better (my opinion), you can make it infinitely faster, better at handling and any other metric you want to compare between the two, buy a decent sized house with a garage to park it in, and still have spent less than going the Ferrari route. And don’t even get me started on the cost of maintaining the Ferrari.

Pretty sure Ferrari isn't marketing to guys like you. They're fine with you buying Mustangs. I will say, if you haven't driven a car like a 512, you really have no idea what you're talking about. They are truly in a different league from mass produced cars like Mustang, Camaro or Challenger as good as they are at their price point.

 

[Erik427]

The 5.0 is impressive because it is a high volume mass produced engine that meets fuel economy standards as well.

This.....This right here.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

Aside from the gay name Ferrari chose for that vehicle, you can grab an off the shelf V8 Mustang of your choosing, it’ll already look better (my opinion), you can make it infinitely faster, better at handling and any other metric you want to compare between the two, buy a decent sized house with a garage to park it in, and still have spent less than going the Ferrari route. And don’t even get me started on the cost of maintaining the Ferrari.

To each their own. A very rich person who owns a Ferrari 812 Superfast likely has the Ferrari (along with an S class Benz, high end Range Rover, other supercars to go along with the 812 SF, and a collection of Rolex watches that sit around most of the time) and a nicer house and garage to put it in than you or me. And my house is pretty nice and my garage is 1000 sq ft. They're not worried about being able to buy a decent $250k house with the savings of not buying the Ferrari and then supercharging a base V8 Mustang GT. Faster in a straight line or not, it's still just a Mustang. No comparison to a Ferrari 812 SF. And as much as I love my Mustang and the looks, I like the 812 Superfast much more. That thing is awesome. Nearly 800 hp naturally aspirated in a Ferrari V12 with a 9,000 rpm redline doesn't hurt, either. As I've said before in other threads: I'll take the high powered NA engine over a forced induction car any day.

 

[Excel]

fords engine is made with cheap parts,cheap internals etc
Take it apart,insert Ferrari type quality forged and billet parts and you have a proud machine

 

[speedfrk]

fords engine is made with cheap parts,cheap internals etc
Take it apart,insert Ferrari type quality forged and billet parts and you have a proud machine

The 5.0 is designed for mass production and affordability. The fact that it makes 460HP from 5 liters is really amazing. Of course you can throw money at it and make it better but 99% of the 5.0's will never be modded beyond a CAI or catch can and they will likely last 200,000 miles. I see Ford trucks at the auction all the time with 200-300,000 miles on them.

 

[Idaho2018GTPremium]

fords engine is made with cheap parts,cheap internals etc
Take it apart,insert Ferrari type quality forged and billet parts and you have a proud machine

The Coyote has a forged crankshaft, hypereutectic pistons, and sintered rods. Better than engines in the past. While they are not likely up to the quality in the amazing Ferrari V12, they aren't all terrible.

 

[WildHorse]

I will say, if you haven't driven a car like a 512

My buddy and I swap fobs every so often. I can def say the Ferrari is more refined, whereas my Mustang is more raw is the way it delivers power to the ground.

 

[speedfrk]

My buddy and I swap fobs every so often. I can def say the Ferrari is more refined, whereas my Mustang is more raw is the way it delivers power to the ground.

Just looking at that picture, and there is no contest. Its more than just flat out power... I had a 308 back in the 80's and it was not refined at all, lol. But it was reliable. Although I think a new clutch cost 4K or something like that. Really, its comparing apples to oranges in most respects.

 

[Excel]

The Coyote has a forged crankshaft, hypereutectic pistons, and sintered rods. Better than engines in the past. While they are not likely up to the quality in the amazing Ferrari V12, they aren't all terrible.

I was not comparing I was just stating a fact......older engines were made better for durability anyway..
Forged Pistons,Forged rods and crank..Ill take that over any Hyper piston and powdered rod..

Thats why when you buy a built motor its all forged! (or billet)

 

[engineermike]

I was not comparing I was just stating a fact......older engines were made better for durability anyway..

Sorry but I have to disagree with this. Yes, older motors seemed to use more forged parts, in some cases at least. However, the geometry, part defect rate, and QC we’re worlds behind modern engines.

You should read the results of durability testing of 1960’s motors. The ones that didn’t catastrophically fail came out on their last leg, usually due to failure of inconsistent or defective parts. Modern engines perform much better even though the testing is more harsh.

FEA results in better stress distribution and modern NDT methods improve QC. Modernized manufacturing processes result in less defects.

Also, old motors typically had 2 or maybe 4 bolt mains. New motors typically have deep skirted blocks with 6 bolt mains.

I don’t know of many or even any “stock” old motors that can withstand 10 psi boost and 850 hp without grenading on the first hit. The coyote is surprisingly reliable under these conditions.

 

[NDALLAS40]

Saw this on Road & Track. Always knew Ford sold a well engineered product but never thought to this extent. Pretty interesting:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a32157287/bmep-engine-performance-measurment-explained/

DAYUM! That's a lot of information packed in to 17 minutes.

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