Mustang Sales Down 41%...

[rick81721]

I would not be surprised if in 5 years we see major changes.

Once these auto manufacturers get this EV crap figured out and in production sales will skyrocket.

Telsa advertises the Model 3 as 0-60 in 3.6 seconds. Motor Trend got 3.3 seconds on Skinny-Azz tires.

Jay Leno took a ride in the 1.9 second Tesla and he said mankind has reached its limits. He said the human body can barely handle 1.9 and it could be dangerous.

Said it was like flying in a Fighter Jet.

Elon Musk said EV cars will beat ANY SUPERCAR at a fraction of the price.

I almost got hit by a Tesla while at the grocery store. A woman was pulling out of her space, wasn't paying attention and almost hit me. I heard NOTHING, the car made zero noise.

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/08/...f-designer-about-the-2020-tesla-roadster.html

The real answer is that we are running out if oil.


Your car belches out toxic gas every second it is in operation and green house gas is the urgent problem. Arguments mean nothing anymore. EV is here to stay and arguments in some Mustang fan website won’t change that. EV Mustang will be better in every way. Way faster and neutral handling - people will buy it. Fake exhaust sound will resonate out the fake tailpipes like the BMW. That answers that question.

Running out of fossil fuel, yes. But ethanol and algae (or other source) hydrocarbons are sustainable. Vehicles running on hydrocarbons will be here for generations.

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[Fatguy]

Running out of fossil fuel, yes. But ethanol and algae (or other source) hydrocarbons are sustainable. Vehicles running on hydrocarbons will be here for generations.

Want to bet? I’ve been at conferences at some very high levels and we allowed young people to speak and they are very critical of our selfish attitude about the future environment they and their children will inherit and have to live in.


If you were in my seat your attitude would change fast...

 

[GreenS550]

Here is something to think about. A lot of folks that did not go through the muscle car era of the late 60s and very early 70s don't realize that the death of the muscle car was NOT the emissions that came on quickly. Yes, it did effect performance, but gasoline prices and baby boomers getting married and women in the workforce in larger numbers caused extreme inflation. I bought several 60s/70 muscle cars in the later 70s for cheap.

I still remember looking at a 1970 Plymouth GTX with a 440 loaded, mint, garage kept super low miles. They had a very hard time selling it for $1,000. That was the summer of 1975. Muscle cars became a dinosaur then. NOBODY wanted them.

The muscle car thing is cyclical. But, then we have all these young people in their 20s and 30s most of whom never turned a wrench. Taught that fossil fuels are bad. So that's part of it. Most of us love to get a new part and mess with it!

BTW, where does Tesla get the electricity from: Fossil fuels burned at a likely coal, oil or gas fired plant, transferred over power lines that have parasitic losses. It is laughable these folks that quote Tesla as the future. If fossil fuel prices go up, so will electricity prices. Government subsidies are driving lots of this alternative stuff and without the massive government push, which does not rely on having to turn a profit much of it would just be driven by supply/demand. Eventually we might get where electric cars work, but it will likely be a long, long time.

 

[rick81721]

Want to bet? I’ve been at conferences at some very high levels and we allowed young people to speak and they are very critical of our selfish attitude about the future environment they and their children will inherit and have to live in.


If you were in my seat your attitude would change fast...

Haha sure - these "whatever is going to disappear in our lifetime" bets are a sure thing! I"m sure a few millennials at conferences speak for billions...

 

[Fatguy]

Haha sure - these "whatever is going to disappear in our lifetime" bets are a sure thing! I"m sure a few millennials at conferences speak for billions...

Trust me they don’t hold back.


Here is the thought. It is not them but our own conscience at work here. We (and I’m pushing 60) we’re the ones bitching about pollution and such back in the day. We failed out of greed. We bitched about the man who only was concerned about making money and where are we now.


Anyway the few millenilas won and things are changing. Happened a while ago too...

 

[rick81721]

Trust me they don’t hold back.


Here is the thought. It is not them but our own conscience at work here. We (and I’m pushing 60) we’re the ones bitching about pollution and such back in the day. We failed out of greed. We bitched about the man who only was concerned about making money and where are we now.


Anyway the few millenilas won and things are changing. Happened a while ago too...

And as a result of our "bitching" (I'm 60), cars are significantly cleaner than they were 40 years ago. And who is buying Teslas - millennials? nope. Plus you are completely disregarding the billions of drivers in the developing world.

 

[Fatguy]

And as a result of our "bitching" (I'm 60), cars are significantly cleaner than they were 40 years ago. And who is buying Teslas - millennials? nope. Plus you are completely disregarding the billions of drivers in the developing world.

Remember this movie from 1981:

 

[IronG]

Trust me they don’t hold back.


Here is the thought. It is not them but our own conscience at work here. We (and I’m pushing 60) we’re the ones bitching about pollution and such back in the day. We failed out of greed. We bitched about the man who only was concerned about making money and where are we now.


Anyway the few millenilas won and things are changing. Happened a while ago too...

Not sure why you point to millennials as the winners of climate change champions. There have been those champions of decades. Whether you agree with them or not is mostly moot. The real driver here is change. From the beginning of man change has been happening. Sure at different speeds, but change it has. Now what is the driver of change? Generally it is someone that comes up with an idea to make money. An invention, a new process or a discovery. Explorers set out to find new lands. Sure part of it was for them to find something, but it was usually funded by someone with money. That person had the idea they could somehow make more money if the explorers found something. Another example is computers. The inventors wanted to be the first ones to do it or make them faster, but again it was either funded by someone with money or money was the driver. Now we get to EV's. Why have they not been around sooner. One is the tech, it really was not good enough or cheap enough to use. There is a natural opposition to it that has recently subsided, why, because there is profit to be made. Also, there is a shift in how vehicles should interact with one another on the road. Self driving cars are seen to be viable in a few and be powered by EV's. Self driving will come, but it won't be quick. Anyway, the driving factor has always been and probably always will be money. Just because the millennials exist does not mean they affected the march of climate control or EV's Those things were going to happen no matter what they said or did. BTW, change will keep happening long after the millennials are taking dirt naps.

 

[bootlegger]

1. ICE engines are on the way out, but will still be around in some form for the rest of our lifetime. This isn’t some “millennial” prediction, this is coming straight from the management of all the top automotive companies. We are all preparing for it. It has already started with the increase of EV and hybrid systems. You will see a gradual increase of hybrid systems in the market, which will lead to more EV vehicles. That doesn’t mean you won’t be able to have a V8 Mustang in your garage, but these vehicles will be more expensive to operate as logistics move away from gasoline production and distribution. This won’t happen overnight, so no need for doom and gloom. We are talking 15-20 years for hybrids to take up a majority and probably 40-50 years for EV.

2. EV is lacking today only due to battery technology. But this is greatly improving every year. They are making them with less and less material, which has weight and environmental benefits. Sure, the chemicals used are horrible for the environment, as is the mining needed for it, but the primary concern right now is CO2, NOx, and HC emissions. We are nearing the limit of what we can do with ICE emissions, but we are only starting with battery/EV technology. Along with the move towards EV, we absolutely must move towards more renewable energy sources, along with safer nuclear power plants. That is all part of the big picture, but many roadblocks still exist.

3. All of this is completely off topic, because the Mustang is still selling amazingly well in the automotive market. It’s a 4 year old platform and still keeping steady to increasing sales, after a post new platform release dip. There is no concern at Ford about selling the car. I am certain they are happy with the numbers, and the Mustang isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Fatguy]

1. ICE engines are on the way out, but will still be around in some form for the rest of our lifetime. This isn’t some “millennial” prediction, this is coming straight from the management of all the top automotive companies. We are all preparing for it. It has already started with the increase of EV and hybrid systems. You will see a gradual increase of hybrid systems in the market, which will lead to more EV vehicles. That doesn’t mean you won’t be able to have a V8 Mustang in your garage, but these vehicles will be more expensive to operate as logistics move away from gasoline production and distribution. This won’t happen overnight, so no need for doom and gloom. We are talking 15-20 years for hybrids to take up a majority and probably 40-50 years for EV.

2. EV is lacking today only due to battery technology. But this is greatly improving every year. They are making them with less and less material, which has weight and environmental benefits. Sure, the chemicals used are horrible for the environment, as is the mining needed for it, but the primary concern right now is CO2, NOx, and HC emissions. We are nearing the limit of what we can do with ICE emissions, but we are only starting with battery/EV technology. Along with the move towards EV, we absolutely must move towards more renewable energy sources, along with safer nuclear power plants. That is all part of the big picture, but many roadblocks still exist.

3. All of this is completely off topic, because the Mustang is still selling amazingly well in the automotive market. It’s a 4 year old platform and still keeping steady to increasing sales, after a post new platform release dip. There is no concern at Ford about selling the car. I am certain they are happy with the numbers, and the Mustang isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.

The Mustang brand ain’t going anywhere. They have said it many times on the record. Just whether it’s IC or EV...

One thing about Tesla. They will never shutter the doors and mothball the thing. If they go belly up they will be purchased by a big automaker who will use the tech to retool and produce EVs big time. You watch...

 

[TexasRebel]

The real answer is that we are running out if oil.


Your car belches out toxic gas every second it is in operation and green house gas is the urgent problem. Arguments mean nothing anymore. EV is here to stay and arguments in some Mustang fan website won’t change that. EV Mustang will be better in every way. Way faster and neutral handling - people will buy it. Fake exhaust sound will resonate out the fake tailpipes like the BMW. That answers that question.

CO2 and H2O are not exactly toxic... There's N2 going in and coming out as well...but WGAF.
The issue is that not all combustion is ideal and because of the entropy involved you get things like dissociated nitrogen and oxygen forming NOx. Then there are the trace amounts of other elements in the air like sulfur which form SOx. A huge step in clean burning would be to regulate the air going into the beast.

If you have nothing but O2 and C8H18 going into the engine, stoichiometry says you get nothing out except CO2 and H2O. While nothing can ever be perfect, right now there is about 3x as much N2 going into the combustion process as there is O2... Which, ideally, just compresses and comes back out the same way it went in. Realistically, it does not.

Also, "running out of oil" is a bit subjective. Especially since there are plenty of reserves we can't touch simply because somebody says "don't". This planet is a huge ball of solar energy storage made of carbon that was forming hydrocarbon chains deep within (still is). At some point the thing was (is?) going to burn itself, and it could be argued that controlled release of the stored energy is averting disaster.

No, the real puzzle is how we harness the energy from Sol into synthetic (or natural) hydrocarbon chains. Algae is one way, gasification of waste biomass is another. The trick is finding a way to get energy stored without using even more energy to store it.

Ultimately if you are using 2 units of energy to store 1 unit... you might as well have just used the 2 units for the intended purpose in the first place.

 

[Chameleon]

And then the MY2018 prices were released and UK sales fell off the cliff

Yep.

 

[Bedwelljp]

Yep. Still depressing to see the performance car market taking such a hit. Passenger cars also.

I can't stand SUVs.

I see this new crap Tesla (Model 3?) is running 0-60MPH in 3.5 seconds. WTF?

Very few American high horsepower cars can consistently get those low numbers.

I hope the whole EV market goes to hell and Trump does away with every incentive.

Model 3 though is still a $50,000 car.

 

[EcoVert]

Model 3 though is still a $50,000 car.

Somebodies dreaming

 

[ProChargerTECH]

My only addition to this thread is... embrace change.

People think I am crazy, but I enjoy all the cars in my fleet.
Cause each has a reason to exist.

Diesel = Mercedes Diesel (40+ mpgs, gets 700 miles on a tank, I drive it when I go 50-100 miles in a day)
EV = Chevrolet Volt (think I am sitting at 150 mpg average right now, it gets driven about 40 miles a day... 38 of that is usually all electric)
ICE = My Caddy, Mustangs, Camaro, Jeep, Truck, Slignshot, Motorcycles, Waverunners. (these are toys and are treated as such)

But for day to day driving, I embrace my Diesel and the EV...cause it saves me $$$$
And that means more $$$ to spend on toy cars I don't need lol.



NOTE: I sold all my gas lawn equipment as well and went electric. Thats been a dream actually, cause now I mow at night when its cool and nobody cares cause its nearly silent LOL

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