Methanol injection question...

[ahl395]

Yea I know it will start to climb eventually, but I want to make sure I get the largest iat drop/hold as possible. You could easily move the sensor into the manifold, plug the intake pipe and Lund can change the iat sensor settings like he did for me. Manifold is where Jon recommended I put it and should be the most accurate location for post meth air temps.

Second smaller nozzle should work perfect for ya, but I still think a larger single will do the trick as well.

Where’d you put your turn-on led light btw?

Curious what iat sensor setting did Lund change? I can't think of anything that would need changing. My VMP harness just tied into the MAF harness and replaced the IAT reading on it's own. Did you use a different method?

I mounted my turn on LED and low level LED on my A pillar.

Not a 5.0 FI owner, but I like lurking this forum.

I'm interested in WMI as a subtitute for race fuel on the stock GT350 tune. With everything stock we don't even get full advance due to the high compression and safe KR.

Before photobucket wrecked everyone, there was a comparison dyno on another forum showing a healthy hp gain through the curve with 98 vs 93. What do you guys think about running the smallest nozzle just for cooling and knock reduction?

I would agree that a small nozzle would probably work out well. Since you don't have boost you'll use MAF/RPM to trigger the meth to come on. Probably best to have it come on high in the RPMs and then slowly work your way down while tuning. You don't want to inject too much at lower RPMs, especially without boost. You may not be able to get all of it through the throttle body at part throttle and it will collect in the intake pipe. And of course you don't want to quench combustion.

I would shoot an email to the manufacturer of the meth kit you're thinking about going with. I would recommend Alky Control as the most reliable and safe system. Although since you wont be relying on the meth much at all, you may not want to spend the extra money over a Snow or AEM kit.

Thanks! Yeah power adders just create more productive discussions related to fuel and tuning. Plus this is a big group with lots of ideas. The Voodoo reliability seems too hit or miss to throw boost at it for now.

Where is everyone mounting their tanks/pumps? Seems like trunk mounting is ideal due to space restrictions

Personally I went with a trunk mount. Mostly because I wanted a large capacity tank so I didn't have to fill it too often. I mounted my tank in the trunk and the pump in the spare tire well. If you don't have a spare tire in there it's a good spot as it's out of the way and gravity keeps the pump from going dry.

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[hawk232]

Curious what iat sensor setting did Lund change? I can't think of anything that would need changing. My VMP harness just tied into the MAF harness and replaced the IAT reading on it's own. Did you use a different method?

I mounted my turn on LED and low level LED on my A pillar.








I would agree that a small nozzle would probably work out well. Since you don't have boost you'll use MAF/RPM to trigger the meth to come on. Probably best to have it come on high in the RPMs and then slowly work your way down while tuning. You don't want to inject too much at lower RPMs, especially without boost. You may not be able to get all of it through the throttle body at part throttle and it will collect in the intake pipe. And of course you don't want to quench combustion.

I would shoot an email to the manufacturer of the meth kit you're thinking about going with. I would recommend Alky Control as the most reliable and safe system. Although since you wont be relying on the meth much at all, you may not want to spend the extra money over a Snow or AEM kit.




Personally I went with a trunk mount. Mostly because I wanted a large capacity tank so I didn't have to fill it too often. I mounted my tank in the trunk and the pump in the spare tire well. If you don't have a spare tire in there it's a good spot as it's out of the way and gravity keeps the pump from going dry.

can you post pics of your trunk mount setup?

I just contacted LPF to see about cancelling the AEM and going with Alky Control for my setup. Would you mind giving me an idea what the Alky Control setup costs? you can pm if you prefer...

 

[ahl395]

can you post pics of your trunk mount setup?

I just contacted LPF to see about cancelling the AEM and going with Alky Control for my setup. Would you mind giving me an idea what the Alky Control setup costs? you can pm if you prefer...

Alky Control is a solid kit. Much bigger and beefier controller, braided lines that bolt on instead of nylon "push lock" fittings was the best advantage IMO. Alky kit cost me around $850 I think.

My setup in it's entirety is kind of unorthodox... Lol. My system is designed around a giant sound system so I had a custom stainless tank fabricated for my setup. I'll post some thumbnails below just click on them for full size (Don't want to fill up the whole page lol).

I'm also running a Snow Performance nozzle rather than the Alky nozzle. The shop that made the pipe for me did not want to install the Alky nozzle because of the way it secures it's possible for the inner piece to loosen and get sucked into the engine. I kind of agreed and that's why I made that deviation from the kit.
***I'm not flaming Alky or telling anyone else they should do this, just sharing my setup is all. There's thousands of alky control kits out there and I've never heard of that happening***

 

[hawk232]

good info, thanks!

 

[BlownOne]

Curious what iat sensor setting did Lund change? I can't think of anything that would need changing. My VMP harness just tied into the MAF harness and replaced the IAT reading on it's own. Did you use a different method?

I mounted my turn on LED and low level LED on my A pillar.

He said I should relocate the iat sensor off the maf to the manifold (using vmp’s breakout kit) so the pcm could see the change in iat, he had to modify the transfer function for the iat so it reads accurately.

When I first installed the sensor and fired my car on my original tune to make sure everything was working properly, I was still getting the maf iat reading of 3* above ambient. Then I loaded my revised tune and iats jumped 20+ over ambient. They must have already changed that in your tune if you’re seeing iats drop when you spray.

Also, I don’t like the idea of having a nozzle inside my I/c pipe that could possibly be swallowed by my motor, even tho I’ve never heard of that happening to anyone. I used a shitload of loctite to be safe lol and my new Devils Own nozzle has 1/8” threads on both ends so you can thread it on the outside of the pipe and into the nozzle holder which is fool proof.

 

[ahl395]

He said I should relocate the iat sensor off the maf to the manifold (using vmp’s breakout kit) so the pcm could see the change in iat, he had to modify the transfer function for the iat so it reads accurately.

When I first installed the sensor and fired my car on my original tune to make sure everything was working properly, I was still getting the maf iat reading of 3* above ambient. Then I loaded my revised tune and iats jumped 20+ over ambient. They must have already changed that in your tune if you’re seeing iats drop when you spray.

Also, I don’t like the idea of having a nozzle inside my I/c pipe that could possibly be swallowed by my motor, even tho I’ve never heard of that happening to anyone. I used a shitload of loctite to be safe lol and my new Devils Own nozzle has 1/8” threads on both ends so you can thread it on the outside of the pipe and into the nozzle holder which is fool proof.

Strange, my IAT changes back and forth from MAF to IAT depending on if I have the VMP harness in or not. I do however seem to have innacurate readings on my IAT sensor. Reads under ambient while cruising lol.

Yeah, much safer route. You'll need to have a 1/8 NPT bung welded onto your intake pipe and then you can thread the front nozzle threads into that, and the nozzle holder onto the back.

Speaking of....
Turns out I don't think I need a second nozzle after all. The shop that replaced my intake pipe (and therefor removed/reinstalled my meth nozzle), overtightened it so much that they completely crushed the filter on the end of the nozzle. Unbelievable. I thought the unaffectiveness of my meth was due to raising boost but it was actually just because most of the damn nozzle was blocked. :frusty: :frusty: Snow Performance only offers ground shipping so I'm going the same direction as you are. DevilsOwn nozzle holder and 640ml/min slightly larger nozzle than the Snow. And with Priority shipping.

 

[BlownOne]

Strange, my IAT changes back and forth from MAF to IAT depending on if I have the VMP harness in or not. I do however seem to have innacurate readings on my IAT sensor. Reads under ambient while cruising lol.

Yeah, much safer route. You'll need to have a 1/8 NPT bung welded onto your intake pipe and then you can thread the front nozzle threads into that, and the nozzle holder onto the back.

Speaking of....
Turns out I don't think I need a second nozzle after all. The shop that replaced my intake pipe (and therefor removed/reinstalled my meth nozzle), overtightened it so much that they completely crushed the filter on the end of the nozzle. Unbelievable. I thought the unaffectiveness of my meth was due to raising boost but it was actually just because most of the damn nozzle was blocked. :frusty: :frusty: Snow Performance only offers ground shipping so I'm going the same direction as you are. DevilsOwn nozzle holder and 640ml/min slightly larger nozzle than the Snow. And with Priority shipping.

Yea I’m not sure what’s happening with your sensor or where it’s reading iat from...I would hit up your tuner [MENTION=19873]Lu[/MENTION]nd and ask him about it.

For sure having the nozzle outside the i/c pipe makes me feel way better hahaha. Yea I ordered a weld bung when I bought the DO nozzle so I’m gtg once they both arrive.

Shit good catch! That makes me wonder if I’m having the same problem as you because I tightened the nozzle on the tighter side since I don’t want the damn thing to fall off and kill my motor. Guess I’ll find out soon enough lol. Well keep this thread updated once you get your new nozzle and do some testing brotha.

 

[ahl395]

Received my DevilsOwn nozzle and holder today. Installing tomorrow.

Overall I like it better. I'll post a bunch of pics below but the nozzle threads into the holder much farther than the Snow nozzle which you can tell by the photo comparing the threads. Also it has an actual hex head portion to put a wrench on rather than the Snow nozzle had two small indents that were much more of a pain. Filter assembly uses a flat head to remove/install rather than a minuscule size hex head. Also the DevilsOwn nozzle holder's AN fitting is part of the holder unlike Snow's is two separate pieces.




Only thing that raises my eyebrow is you can see straight through the nozzle once you remove the filter. Versus the Snow (and Alky Control) nozzles have some kind of spring and plunger that I assume helps make the injection a mist. I assume there's something else going on in the DevilsOwn nozzle that I can't see though, otherwise it would just be a stream lol.

 

[BlownOne]

Nice! I received my nozzle and 1/8” npt bung yesterday as well but I won’t be installing until this weekend since the bung still needs to be welded to my I/c pipe. Devils Own nozzle is a very nice stainless piece and like ahl said, it has a molded in 6 point nut in the center so you can tighten/loosen it properly.

Kinda weird that the screen is the only thing between the nozzle tip and the stream of meth/water. I’ll take a little vid of test spraying after I install with my I/c pipe off to see how much it really atomizes.

 

[ahl395]

Nice! I received my nozzle and 1/8” npt bung yesterday as well but I won’t be installing until this weekend since the bung still needs to be welded to my I/c pipe. Devils Own nozzle is a very nice stainless piece and like ahl said, it has a molded in 6 point nut in the center so you can tighten/loosen it properly.

Kinda weird that the screen is the only thing between the nozzle tip and the stream of meth/water. I’ll take a little vid of test spraying after I install with my I/c pipe off to see how much it really atomizes.

Awesome, that would be great to see. Mine is a pain in the ass to remove and I was in a rush today when I installed it otherwise I would have lol.

No real drive time with it yet but when testing at idle it makes STFT go negative a few more points than the Snow nozzle did, so I think that's a good thing lol.

 

[BlownOne]

Went to my buddies and got the bung welded on my I/c pipe!!

Pulled the check valve to look at the old nozzle to make sure it wasn’t crushed and it wasn’t. Guess the 630 nozzle really just wasn’t enough for a bigger cfm blower. Devils Own 1200ml nozzle fit just fine in Alky’s 90* brass nozzle holder for those that might be looking to upgrade. We drained the tank, re-filled it with 50/50 distilled water/meth, purged the line, hooked everything back up, test fired the system and everything worked perfect without any leaks.

Since the new nozzle kinda sat in the middle of the bung, we got creative and flared the pipe side of the bung so the spray from the nozzle wouldn’t be disrupted. Turned out really nice and actually looked like to was made that way lol.

Tested it on the way home and it seems to be working perfectly!! No hiccups, sputtering, hesitations or misfires. I will take a log tomorrow, but I saw the iat drop 20+ degrees and watched knock hold -5* through the top of 3rd gear into 4th for a few seconds which is 18-18.5* total timing. If the log shows this timing jump too, then it would mean I didn’t have enough octane for the car to want to hold the timing on pump e85 at this power level.

Also, we were looking at the nozzle and there is a restrictor of some sort inside the screen area and some ultra fine mesh at the tip of the nozzle. You have to look at it with indirect light behind it to see, but it’s there. Didn’t get a chance to video it spraying, but I will when I change my upper I/c coupler since it’s torn.

 

[ahl395]

Went to my buddies and got the bung welded on my I/c pipe!!

Pulled the check valve to look at the old nozzle to make sure it wasn’t crushed and it wasn’t. Guess the 630 nozzle really just wasn’t enough for a bigger cfm blower. Devils Own 1200ml nozzle fit just fine in Alky’s 90* brass nozzle holder for those that might be looking to upgrade. We drained the tank, re-filled it with 50/50 distilled water/meth, purged the line, hooked everything back up, test fired the system and everything worked perfect without any leaks.

Since the new nozzle kinda sat in the middle of the bung, we got creative and flared the pipe side of the bung so the spray from the nozzle wouldn’t be disrupted. Turned out really nice and actually looked like to was made that way lol.

Tested it on the way home and it seems to be working perfectly!! No hiccups, sputtering, hesitations or misfires. I will take a log tomorrow, but I saw the iat drop 20+ degrees and watched knock hold -5* through the top of 3rd gear into 4th for a few seconds which is 18-18.5* total timing. If the log shows this timing jump too, then it would mean I didn’t have enough octane for the car to want to hold the timing on pump e85 at this power level.

Also, we were looking at the nozzle and there is a restrictor of some sort inside the screen area and some ultra fine mesh at the tip of the nozzle. You have to look at it with indirect light behind it to see, but it’s there. Didn’t get a chance to video it spraying, but I will when I change my upper I/c coupler since it’s torn.

Sounds awesome! I didn't notice that in the nozzle, that must be where the magic happens.

My new nozzle isnt working as well as my Snow nozzle was, I think DevilsOwn nozzle sizes are all screwed up. If you look at the website their GPH and ml/min numbers do not match at all. DO7 is 7GPH they say 640ml/min, but that actually converts to 442ml/min. DO10 says 10GPH 940ml/min but that converts to 630ml/min. And so on... So I ordered a DO10 and DO12 to swap into mine. I think I'll need the 12GPH nozzle as that's the only one larger than my old Snow nozzle at 757ml/min.

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