Mach 1 vs Gt350 (Track Performance)

MountainStang

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Is it time for an official thread? What’s everyone’s opinion? Will the Mach be able to hold its own or surpass the current most track ready mustang (excluding GT500)?

M6 HP vs Gt350 (Road Course)
A10 HP vs Gt350 (Road Course)
A10 (Drag strip) ?
M6 (Drag strip)?





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shogun32

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it would make sense to lock this thread till magazines have actually published something. Speculation is like virtual masturbation - all work and nothing but pointless frustration at the end.
 

EFI

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it would make sense to lock this thread till magazines have actually published something. Speculation is like virtual masturbation - all work and nothing but pointless frustration at the end.
He asked for opinions and a discussion, which last I checked is legal to do on this thread. If you don't like such discussion, it's best to stay out of it. Some people like to speculate.

Back to the original question, given equal drivers an A10 equipped Mach will keep up with a GT350 both on the road course and drag strip. With the M6 not a chance.
 

jake_zx2

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I think the M6 has a good chance of keeping up with a GT350 on a road course, and an A10 has a chance of surpassing it. With the new heading, the Coyote is no longer neutered in the acceleration department, so it won’t lose as much time there. The Mach 1 also has more tire than both the GT350 AND the PP2. The PP2 managed to put down higher lateral grip numbers and shorter braking distance, the main deficiencies that made it slower around a road course were acceleration (clearly neutered by the garbage MT82) and suspension compliance. We know that the Mach 1, with its extra 20 horsepower and better gearing, will GREATLY improve upon the PP2, and will most likely come pretty close to the GT350. What we don’t know yet is whether or not Ford fixed the suspension compliance issue. But with all the modifications to the suspension and other handling components (namely in the aero department) with many of them coming straight from the GT350 and GT500, I think there’s a pretty good chance that the Mach will come close to matching the GT350s suspension compliance

So, with acceleration and handling dynamics being within spitting distance, but improvements on raw grip and stopping distance, there’s quite a good chance that the Mach 1 will at least be able to match the GT350
 

EFI

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Provided you do it on the first lap.

Because by lap 2 it's overheating.
The Mach has a full suite of external coolers, including transmission and differential. It should not overheat under most normal circumstances.
 

jake_zx2

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The Mach has a full suite of external coolers, including transmission and differential. It should not overheat under most normal circumstances.
The engine and diff aren’t the ones at risk of overheating in this situation, it’s the transmission. Ford says they improved trans cooling by 75% for the Mach 1, but 75% over a tiny, single core cooler isn’t much improvement. The A10 has a well known history of overheating during track use, even with aftermarket cooling upgrades being made (and some innovative ones at that; I know a guy who fixed an extra wiper fluid reservoir filled with water to spray cool water on his trans cooler, and he was still having overheating problems)
 

Bulldogs22

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I think the M6 has a good chance of keeping up with a GT350 on a road course, and an A10 has a chance of surpassing it. With the new heading, the Coyote is no longer neutered in the acceleration department, so it won’t lose as much time there. The Mach 1 also has more tire than both the GT350 AND the PP2. The PP2 managed to put down higher lateral grip numbers and shorter braking distance, the main deficiencies that made it slower around a road course were acceleration (clearly neutered by the garbage MT82) and suspension compliance. We know that the Mach 1, with its extra 20 horsepower and better gearing, will GREATLY improve upon the PP2, and will most likely come pretty close to the GT350. What we don’t know yet is whether or not Ford fixed the suspension compliance issue. But with all the modifications to the suspension and other handling components (namely in the aero department) with many of them coming straight from the GT350 and GT500, I think there’s a pretty good chance that the Mach will come close to matching the GT350s suspension compliance

So, with acceleration and handling dynamics being within spitting distance, but improvements on raw grip and stopping distance, there’s quite a good chance that the Mach 1 will at least be able to match the GT350
An A10 Handling Pack Mach 1 will definitely destroy a 15-18 350 non R. I do not believe the 6speed Mach 1 will outperform a 19+ 350 and obviously an R on a road course. With the A10 I believe the Mach 1 can match or maybe beat a 19+350 depending on the driver and the simple fact if you put an A10 in the car it has an advantage.... imagine a specially tuned A10 in the 350 then it would beat the Mach 1 easily. I think the main thing people want to know is the "feel" as others have brought up faster doesn't always mean a better handling car since most of it is up to drivers... I think that's where the 350 blows it out of the park is the "feel" for even beginner drivers compared to lets say a PP2 where it wasn't worked out properly and drivers can tell you are relying on purely tire grip from the Cup 2's. A side note for the cost its a shame Ford did not put the 350 brakes on the Mach 1 no matter what anyone says there is a substantial difference especially under hard braking for long periods of time.
 

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I would say almost doubling cooling capacity is pretty decent upgrade. Also putting the cooler right behind an opening in the lower bumper is a much better location than sandwiched between the condenser and a hot radiator. They could also have done something with the internal thermostat that is keeping the oil out of the cooler until 200* which is much too late to do much.

I've read alot of the work Allesandro has done to the car, and if I recall correctly he has gotten it to a point where it doesn't give him much cooling trouble, even before the spray thing. He did a lot of work, but seems now his issues are more related to the trans and specifically the torque converter than cooling. Curious to see what he does with the car after the crash.

I imagine with all the work Ford has done to the Mach and the experience from the Shelby overheating that they have pretty well sorted it out for cooling. Also most road cars will overheat if driven enough, I don't think Ford is making this out to be some endurance racer. If it can go several laps maybe a "short" session then that's all they are really going after.

The engine and diff aren’t the ones at risk of overheating in this situation, it’s the transmission. Ford says they improved trans cooling by 75% for the Mach 1, but 75% over a tiny, single core cooler isn’t much improvement. The A10 has a well known history of overheating during track use, even with aftermarket cooling upgrades being made (and some innovative ones at that; I know a guy who fixed an extra wiper fluid reservoir filled with water to spray cool water on his trans cooler, and he was still having overheating problems)
 

jake_zx2

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An A10 Handling Pack Mach 1 will definitely destroy a 15-18 350 non R. I do not believe the 6speed Mach 1 will outperform a 19+ 350 and obviously an R on a road course. With the A10 I believe the Mach 1 can match or maybe beat a 19+350 depending on the driver and the simple fact if you put an A10 in the car it has an advantage.... imagine a specially tuned A10 in the 350 then it would beat the Mach 1 easily. I think the main thing people want to know is the "feel" as others have brought up faster doesn't always mean a better handling car since most of it is up to drivers... I think that's where the 350 blows it out of the park is the "feel" for even beginner drivers compared to lets say a PP2 where it wasn't worked out properly and drivers can tell you are relying on purely tire grip from the Cup 2's. A side note for the cost its a shame Ford did not put the 350 brakes on the Mach 1 no matter what anyone says there is a substantial difference especially under hard braking for long periods of time.
I agree with this for the most part, but I feel like Ford may be able to pull off GT350 levels of suspension compliance and driveability with the Mach 1. As long as they tune the suspension components to match (or exceed) the compliance of the GT350, the only real difference between the 2 cars would be the spindle design and LCA mounting point, which means that it could theoretically come close to the GT350, if not exceed it considering the higher level of raw grip it will produce. I don’t think it’ll be able to match the R, but the R really isn’t THAT far off from the standard 350 now that the standard model also gets Cup2s (albeit a smaller set). I think most of the R’s advantage comes from the additional aero and how damn light those carbon fiber wheels are

The A10 equipped handling package, I feel pretty confident in saying it’ll surpass the GT350. As for the M6, it’s more of a toss-up, but I feel like if it DOESN’T beat it, itll

I would say almost doubling cooling capacity is pretty decent upgrade. Also putting the cooler right behind an opening in the lower bumper is a much better location than sandwiched between the condenser and a hot radiator. They could also have done something with the internal thermostat that is keeping the oil out of the cooler until 200* which is much too late to do much.

I've read alot of the work Allesandro has done to the car, and if I recall correctly he has gotten it to a point where it doesn't give him much cooling trouble, even before the spray thing. He did a lot of work, but seems now his issues are more related to the trans and specifically the torque converter than cooling. Curious to see what he does with the car after the crash.

I imagine with all the work Ford has done to the Mach and the experience from the Shelby overheating that they have pretty well sorted it out for cooling. Also most road cars will overheat if driven enough, I don't think Ford is making this out to be some endurance racer. If it can go several laps maybe a "short" session then that's all they are really going after.
Doubling cooling capacity sounds great, but you also have to understand that it’s relative. The current A10 equipped cars have damn near nothing in terms of effective trans cooling, and double of nothing is, well, nothing. Changing the location of the coolers could certainly be beneficial, but with that, only time will tell

Ale’s A10 car still hasn’t had the issues resolved. The crash came right after the third round of upgrades to try and help it keep cool, and the crash was caused in part by, you guessed it, issues with the trans not managing heat. The most recent upgrades included upgraded clutch packs, so we’ll have to see how that turns out, but he keeps having TC issues because the heat is so extreme. I know most owners don’t have the same issues as he has, but most drivers also aren’t at his caliber of driving skill, so they aren’t exactly pushing the car as hard as he is. I’d be curious to see him get behind the wheel of an A10 Mach 1 and see what happens
 

shogun32

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I’d be curious to see him get behind the wheel of an A10 Mach 1 and see what happens
Crash on the 7th lap instead of the 3rd. just kidding

GM has figured out A10 cooling it would appear as they bring that trans to the SS and ZL 1LE trims. If Ford didn't at minimum match what GM did they are kidding themselves.
 

Bulldogs22

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Crash on the 7th lap instead of the 3rd. just kidding

GM has figured out A10 cooling it would appear as they bring that trans to the SS and ZL 1LE trims. If Ford didn't at minimum match what GM did they are kidding themselves.
It's a shame Ford never did a specially tuned version of the A10 like Chevy puts in the ZL 1lE to use for the 350. I know it would defeat the drivers car feel you get from a manual, but could you imagine a 350 staying in the 6k+ power band for each gear change would be a force to reckon with on track.
 

jake_zx2

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I’ve heard rumors of Camaro A10s having the same issues that we have with the A10. I’m not in the Camaro forums enough to know first-hand, though
 

shogun32

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Not enough 1LE units out there yet with A10 I reckon plus track season is over. Come June we'll have some data. But in general v8 1LE owners are smart enough to know that 6MT is the only correct answer, unlike you Ford people who keep putting A10 where it doesn't belong. :)
 

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