LT5 in a ZLE - GT500 killer

[9secondko]

This is my problem, just where do you get the notion that its right up there with the gt350r if the only real instrumented test there is for the gt500 is 1/4 mile runs, some guys butt dyno? you are making that up.

The zl1 1le its a terrible car for street driving it will hurt your kidneys, thats the price you have to pay for a pork like that to be quick at the track, and now you want to say that the even porkier gt500 will magically be a better track car and still be comfortable, come on man, since my fist comment i have been trying to explain to you it will need to have even more extreme suspension setup because its heavier. Hellcat red eye cant go around the corners but its comfortable, zl1 1le can go around corners faster than most but its uncomfortable, the gt500 will be like one of the two before or just fall in the middle and be mediocre.

Now since we know that track focused suspension setups arent good at the Drags, and we know the gt500 has an excellent performance in the 1/4 mile we can assume its not that good in the track, just like it was in 2014.

Now on to that depreciation comment, I dont care, that only means i would be able to afford it even earlier, beat the snot out of it at hpde, roll races, drag races, 1/2 mile and auto X, and not worry about it because its a cheap car.

First of all, the fact that a track car is so fast in the 1320 is insane. It's a legit 10.6-10.7 car and that's without slicks and skinnies, tire glue, removing parts of the car, and non-street legal tuning.

The GT500 being faster than the fasted car on record at Grattan - seems to be a data point that would be difficult to argue with. No, Ford didn't publish the time. They don't do that. But when Billy Johnson was asked about a specific stopwatch time that was faster than the top car to run the track, he mentioned that wasn't even the fastest lap.

You must realize that the Ford GT500 event was to put journalists and Youtubers alike in the car and to get a real world experience to toot about. It was genius. Ford didn't have to spend crazy money marketing the car. They let the guests do it. When a product is that good, it's an easy sell.

The fact that Ford knew they could just give these folks the keys and the car would speak for itself says volumes.

But there is a world of difference between putting amateurs in a car, pointing them in a straight line - and then take a stroll within legal speed limits on an outlined route on public roads - versus taking these same amateurs and putting them on tracks in order to drive fast around perilous corners. Chevy tried that a while back without having the folks drive hard - some tried in anyway and wrecked a car. could have been someone's health or life - or multiple people. There is a lot more that goes into these things than is apparent at first. that's why you had the Youtubers riding along with professional drivers for the track style driving.

The car is being tested and numbers are forthcoming. hurt feelings have commenced and more hurt feelings are on the docket - unless you're a GT500 fan

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[9secondko]

This entire post shows how you seem to be completely focused on a single aspect of a vehicle to attempt to diminish the GT500. You seem to think that because GM and Chrysler can’t do it that Ford can’t either. Do you not realize the gt500 is on an extremely capable chassis? Do you not realize the suspension has been revamped? Do you not realize the value of carbon fiber wheels? Do you not realize the benefit of a DCT? Do you not realize the benefit of better tires? Do you not realize the massive HP advantage the GT500 has? Do you not realize etc etc etc. The GT500 isn’t simply a gt350 with more horsepower.

It’s not just weight and suspension. Why you can’t see that is obvious.

I think the haters are stuck in 2013 (when the mustang GT500 pummeled the ZL1 into oblivion in a straight line and merely barely beat it on the track - with its ancient SRA). Certainly Ford can't have wised up and invested unprecedented engineering into a Mustang, can they?

The great thing is that, should Ford want to cheap out and do a hard mount suspension in order to publish even faster track times, they can.

But they went about it like pros. Building a supercar out of a mustang. You don't have to sacrifice your health for performance. Heck, you can even take your date out in this car - and she'd like it!

 

[shogun32]

The zl1 1le its a terrible car for street driving it will hurt your kidneys

Those must be some sensitive kidneys. I drove one and while it was stiffer than anything else in my stable it was not annoying. If I wanted to DD it softer springs would have let the dampers work more effectively.

Now since we know that track focused suspension setups arent good at the Drags, and we know the gt500 has an excellent performance in the 1/4 mile we can assume its not that good in the track, just like it was in 2014.

That's reading a lot into those tea leaves...

soft rear compression and soft front rebound is to allow an artificial degree of early-onset weight transfer in order to launch the car. For road we want a car that is balanced. The 2014 car had lousy suspension no matter it's usage. The GT500 and 350's you can approximate drag strip weight transfer with changes in the MR damper programming. Sure, it's not as much as deliberately screwing with mismatched spring rates but it's enough apparently to set respectable times.

You seem to think that because GM and Chrysler can’t do it that Ford can’t either.

Well, Ford sure is 'lax' about reaching for the brass ring of excellence... The GM tuning on their MR shocks is clearly better than that offered in the GT350. You might be right. Maybe Ford got embarrassed enough by GM to actually put in the effort to make their setup work.

 

[millhouse]

Well, Ford sure is 'lax' about reaching for the brass ring of excellence... The GM tuning on their MR shocks is clearly better than that offered in the GT350. You might be right. Maybe Ford got embarrassed enough by GM to actually put in the effort to make their setup work.

I don't know, by all accounts the GT350R suspension tuning was phenomenal.

Ford also has had no issue going back and re-tuning and upgrading the suspension as seen on the 2019 GT350 and 2020 GT350R.

As good as the GT350R was previously, it's said to be flat out better for 2020.

 

[JonEcoyote]

resale value? What is this the Flip your Car channel?
Per NADA trade-in with 30k miles:

2017 SS1LE: 29.8/45 = 66% of original MSRP (with Magneride)
2017 GT350: 43/60.9 = 70% of original MSRP

Not a lot of difference between them.

A forum member here recently picked up a 1400 mile 2018 for 45k so in his case at least, the Shelby was depreciating at a significant (and higher than above) rate. Actually the production numbers for the SS/1LE could well be a less than the GT350.

Edit: updated numbers

Talking long term bud, not 1-2 years, even though that is considered "long" by todays very brief attention spans people have.

 

[MaskedRacerX]

Talking long term bud, not 1-2 years, even though that is considered "long" by todays very brief attention spans people have.

Yeah, people nowadays just can't ...


OMG, LOOK AT THIS CAT VIDEO!!!!!

 

[newmoon]

Yet, in MT Hot laps the 1LE was still faster than the PP2. Lightning Laps show the 350R behind both the ZL1 and ZLE. And the Z/28. But we all know there's lies, damn lies, and statistics.

The problem for Ford and the S550 chassis is all this magic hasn't trickled down to the GT level. If you want the best driving Mustang you need to pony up for the 350/r or GT500. Hell, you have to add camber bolts to even adjust the camber on a GT. Which is pretty ridiculous if you're buying the PP1 or PP2 'track package'. I got -2.5* in the front of my 1LE without having to add any parts.

Nothing wrong with the 1LE it is a great car and a very capable performer, great bang for the buck. Chevy has the advantage of the 1LE not competing with another n/a model so they can push the SS option a bit further than Ford can with the GT.

Driving a 1LE and driving a GT350 are two very different experiences. There is a reason why nearly every review says the same thing about the 350, many mentioning that it is worth every penny and then some. When I drove the 1LE back in 2017 I just wasn't excited with it, I ended up purchasing a 2013 Boss for similar price because I found the Boss exciting to drive. The 1LE is seriously fast but IMO lacks the excitement of just spirited driving on the street.

 

[shogun32]

Hell, you have to add camber bolts to even adjust the camber on a GT. Which is pretty ridiculous if you're buying the PP1 or PP2 'track package'.

Agreed. Another case of needless STUPID on the part of Ford product managers. The PP2 and GT350 must come with camber plates to be credible, and yet they don't. For the PP1 at least the camber bolts should likewise be standard. The petty and insignificant 'cost cutting' (actually 'profit padding') by Ford is just dumb.

 

[Hack]

Hopefully if GM puts more power in a Camaro they will also fix the chassis. The ZL1 1LE is a little faster than the GT350, but almost every reviewer said that they would rather have the Mustang.

So, even if GM put an engine that made almost as much power as the Predator into the Camaro, if they plopped that engine into the ZL1 1LE the Camaro is almost guaranteed to lose all comparisons with the GT500.

GM does too much bigger hammer engineering. They need to work harder and try to build something both fast plus also fun to drive.

 

[shogun32]

GM does too much bigger hammer engineering. They need to work harder and try to build something both fast plus also fun to drive.

I don't know from what planet GM fetched the C8 interior team but they need to turn them loose on the Camaro while they're at it. Ford interiors may not be perfect by a long shot but they are "just right" for a lot of people. GM interiors have been garbage for decades. It's fun to read the magazines now ripping into the C7 and prior as being utter crap. Hey media, how come you didn't do all of the consumers (and GM) a favor and properly lambast the car when you had the opportunity to inspire change 2 decades ago? Oh right, you suck manufacturer advertising dollars so have no freedom of opinion. And no balls. If the world needs propaganda, the Detroit PR departments are quite capable of generating it themselves...

 

[9secondko]

Agreed. Another case of needless STUPID on the part of Ford product managers. The PP2 and GT350 must come with camber plates to be credible, and yet they don't. For the PP1 at least the camber bolts should likewise be standard. The petty and insignificant 'cost cutting' (actually 'profit padding') by Ford is just dumb.

it’s not that hard to understand. Ford has their strategy for the Mustang and Chevy has their own for the canary. Unfortunately, they don’t always directly compare.

ford figures if you want a track car, get the 350 and R. If you just want a capable v8 car, get the GT. It has allowed the 350 to be developed as the best of breed and a truly special car - above and beyond its peers.

GM figures they’d do everything with the SS short of supercharging.

for that, they have the ZL1. And for a while, it’s been without competition. But now, the king of the monsters has awakened.

ford didn’t max the GT because they want to steer you into a 350 if road course handling is what you’re after.

sure, I’d rather have anything I but be the maxes out version - car, computer, protein powder, etc.

But business is business. And according to the numbers, Ford has the winning business model.

 

[9secondko]

Hopefully if GM puts more power in a Camaro they will also fix the chassis. The ZL1 1LE is a little faster than the GT350, but almost every reviewer said that they would rather have the Mustang.

So, even if GM put an engine that made almost as much power as the Predator into the Camaro, if they plopped that engine into the ZL1 1LE the Camaro is almost guaranteed to lose all comparisons with the GT500.

GM does too much bigger hammer engineering. They need to work harder and try to build something both fast plus also fun to drive.

No, no, no. Don’t you understand? Just pretend the 350R nipping the ZL1 1LEs heels doesn’t exist.

The GT500 is way too heavy, doesn’t have wider tires, and... and... it just can’t possibly whoop the ZL1 1 LE!

 

[DekiDoo]

No, no, no. Don’t you understand? Just pretend the 350R nipping the ZL1 1LEs heels doesn’t exist.

The GT500 is way too heavy, doesn’t have wider tires, and... and... it just can’t possibly whoop the ZL1 1 LE!

4 seconds a lap slower is not "nipping the heels"

 

[JohnnyUtah]

4 seconds a lap slower is not "nipping the heels"

Yeah, I'm a little confused by that too. The only head to head I remember was with the regular ZL1, which was a touch faster than the 350R at Chuckwalla (which isnt a high horsepower road course either).

The ZLE is a lot faster. It's not even close.

The GT500 might be faster than the ZLE, but the 350R isnt nipping at its heels.

 

[Hack]

Whether it's nipping at heels or not, most reviewers said they would buy the Mustang. None of us make money with lap times, so the lap times aren't critical. What really matters is if you enjoy the car.

If you love Camaro you should definitely buy one. Not enough people are doing that and I'd really like to see GM keep building them.

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