It's not all about the 1LE - interesting new Head2Head

[TexArmageddon]

So the last time a GT ran against the M3 it was within a tenth, and now it is 6 tenths off. Yeah I know, but the bimmer cost so much more.

Still not impressed with the new platform.

I have to ask why in the world are you even on this Forum? Just stay in some hole then come back when Ford releases something you want/// Better yet.. Go join the BMW/Camaro Forums... Or GASP a previous gen forum

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[Sasuketr]

Let's be really foolish and hope that if MotorTrend does a H2H between the Mustang and these cars they will not use a fully loaded premium model like that in the 1LE comparo.

Yeah, I know. How foolish of me.

I don't think loosing 60 70 lbs is gonna make a difference. But better tires for sure. Best senario a horse jockey who can drive 120 lbs male and stripped down base gt pp with recaros and a cat back(-30lbs) then we are good to go :headbonk:

 

[Todd15Fastback]

I don't think loosing 60 70 lbs is gonna make a difference. But better tires for sure. Best senario a horse jockey who can drive 120 lbs male and stripped down base gt pp with recaros and a cat back(-30lbs) then we are good to go :headbonk:

I thought a base with PP was right at 3700lbs vs. a loaded GT which we know weighs 3815 lbs. I could off on my 3700lbs but I thought I saw on another thread that they posted pictures of a DIB PP with their weight picture.

 

[Trackaholic]

So the last time a GT ran against the M3 it was within a tenth, and now it is 6 tenths off. Yeah I know, but the bimmer cost so much more.

Still not impressed with the new platform.

Keep in mind that the new M3 has way more power and torque than the old one. So it gained significant lap time due to brute force.

Also notice that in many comparisons it is showing rather poorly overall (specifically autocar's "best driver's car", and then the R&T comparison with the Cayman S and C7).
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/britain-s-best-driver-s-car-2014-verdict
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-rev...51-vs-porsche-cayman-s-comparison-test-review

I get the feeling that many reviewers like the new M3 engine, but aren't satisfied with its overall balance and feel. So while it is significantly faster, I'm not convinced it is actually better than the old M3.

The Mustang on the other hand has basically remained steady in terms of power/weight. Any improvement in laptime is due to a better chassis, better balance, and the new suspension setup.

So, while it may have lost some time to the M3, I still think it may have closed the gap in terms of overall fun. While I would have liked to see the GT PP be more like the 1LE, it does seem to have made a significant leap forward.

It also highlights how good the 1LE is, especially considering how bad the standard SS is.

-T

 

[JohnZiraldo]

... While I would have liked to see the GT PP be more like the 1LE, it does seem to have made a significant leap forward.

Do you think the M4 and the RCF should have also been designed just to compete with the 1LE in dry warm weather only?

I think Ford made the smart decision to focus on the M4 instead of the low volume 1LE track car. Whether they can beat these cars with the initial GT PP is not as important as setting the direction they want to go in.

 

[Taneras]

I have to ask why in the world are you even on this Forum? Just stay in some hole then come back when Ford releases something you want/// Better yet.. Go join the BMW/Camaro Forums... Or GASP a previous gen forum

Unbunch those panties Tex, FATBoss was just commenting on how the previous model Mustang (S197) matched up better against the BMW M.

They do charge a lot more so I don't think that's really a fair comparison, Camaro is the direct competition. I think the S550 matches up fine against the RCF and M4, especially considering the price. Too bad the 1LE is just so darn far ahead.

 

[BobDigi5060]

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words...

The latest from Motortrend, the Lexus RCF vs M4 with DCT and carbon ceramic brakes. Notice both are slower than the 1LE and VERY close in time to the GT PP.

Shows how good the half price GT PP really is, and how much of a full on race car with a plate the 1LE is. :clap2:

The results show how good a GT PP is, but emphasize how great the 1LE is. I'm sorry, but it is all about the 1LE right now.

Exactly! I'm not sure my sarcasm came across right. I was banging my head over his ridiculous comment. The M4 with a friggin DCT tranny and carbon brakes and Super Sport tires only bested a fully loaded GT PP by half a second for crying it loud. And no I don't even care about the price argument.

This is a massive win for the new platform and a lot to be impressed with. Far superior to the S197 Boss platform.

The M4 was fully loaded too ;)

I would hope the next generation be superior to the last generation, but at the end of the day it lost the H2H to it's biggest rival, the Camaro.

 

[BobDigi5060]

I'm tired of the excuses, 15' GT w/ PP and 15' 1LE is a fair comparison. Forget the tires, run what ya' brung. These are performance packaged V8 pony cars at the end of the day.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Too bad the 1LE is just so darn far ahead.

I would own the M3/4 and RCF over the 1LE regardless of the price increase as the 1LE is only good at one thing. Road racing in perfect weather.

That is why the '15 GT PP is the perfect car in its price segment. Can't wait till mine arrives:ford:

 

[Vernichtung]

There is definitely a delta among Motor Trend's comments regarding the 2015 Mustang vs. Camaro 1LE and what some others have to say. Driving.ca offered these impressions:

On the Camaro 1LE -

"...generates a fair amount of engine and tire noise that gets monotonous very quickly at a steady 110-to-120-km/h speed. Trying to drown out the drone with satellite radio only worsened a growing headache"

"However, the Camaro’s extra 200 pounds (???) over the Mustang were noticeable both under braking and during transitional cornering"

"Jamming on a helmet, into the pre-production GT I hopped. Immediately, the improved headroom and sightlines put me at greater ease and comfort. In the SS, I had to drop the seat height to its lowest position just so my helmet wasn’t jammed into the headliner, which put the Camaro’s front corners out of my line of sight — not the optimal situation when trying to pick apexes."

On the Mustang (it's a 50th Anniversary model; judging by the wheels and the fact the writer mentions 255-section tires, it appears devoid of the Performance Pack) -

"Intially, the Mustang was easier to rotate on the tighter corners, the back end coming around in a more controlled fashion than the Camaro. How it would have felt if Ford had stayed with a solid rear axle instead of the car’s new independent setup, I could only imagine. With the cool temperatures, the Pirelli P255/40R19 all-seasons were providing more grip than the SS’s P285/35ZR20 Goodyears. As the temperature slowly rose and we managed to get some heat into the Goodyears, though, the Camaro began to feel better and better working the circuit, providing the same confidence as it did the day before on those back roads."

"And, to be truthful, the GT is more comfortable, has better sightlines and is easier to drive at sporting speeds. It also has a far nicer, more stylish and integrated interior."

http://driving.ca/chevrolet/camaro/...n-2015-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-ford-mustang-gt

Yeah, I'm cherry picking quotes here; my point, though, is that it's a bit premature to conclude anything at this point. Just because Motor Trend wound up with what they did, that isn't entirely indicative of how others' reviews and comparisons will turn out. That said, this article didn't post lap times; the comments above, however, are very telling, especially in light of Motor Trend's recent, less-than-complimentary remarks about the 2015 Mustang.

 

[Trackaholic]

Do you think the M4 and the RCF should have also been designed just to compete with the 1LE in dry warm weather only?

I think Ford made the smart decision to focus on the M4 instead of the low volume 1LE track car. Whether they can beat these cars with the initial GT PP is not as important as setting the direction they want to go in.

Well for me personally I would have like the GT PP to be more track focused. Not sure if that would have compromised daily drivability or if it actually would have made the car more fun on the street as well. A well balanced car is more safe and more controllable than one which transitions from understeer to oversteer in an unpredictable manner.

I realize that others have different needs and desires, so it is possible that Ford has chosen a great compromise for everyone but me. I have no problem with that, other than not having "my" perfect Mustang available right now.

-T

 

[JohnZiraldo]

There is definitely a delta among Motor Trend's comments regarding the 2015 Mustang vs. Camaro 1LE and what some others have to say. Driving.ca offered these impressions:

On the Camaro 1LE -

http://driving.ca/chevrolet/camaro/...n-2015-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-ford-mustang-gt

This article prompted me to look at the build and pricing of a Camaro in Canada and I found that the 1LE option seems to not be called a 1LE in Canada. But, for $3675 you can get a 'Performance Package' with all the same features as a 1LE, except that it does not say which tire brand is included, and there is no 'Suspension Package' option available.

What's that about? Is GM trying to hide the track car identity of the 1LE, or are they toning it down to make it more drivable on less than perfect days?

 

[Vernichtung]

This article prompted me to look at the build and pricing of a Camaro in Canada and I found that the 1LE option seems to not be called a 1LE in Canada. But, for $3675 you can get a 'Performance Package' with all the same features as a 1LE, except that it does not say which tire brand is included, and there is no 'Suspension Package' option available.

What's that about? Is GM trying to hide the track car identity of the 1LE, or are they toning it down to make it more drivable on less than perfect days?

Driving.ca's article did mention 285-section Goodyears; I believe it's the same package, just called something different in Canada.

 

[Todd15Fastback]

Some more info on the comparison from Car and Driver on the GT PP vs 1LE vs Challenger.

 

[FATTBoss]

I know that back in the day the Challenger was a more direct competitor to the Mustang and Camaro, back I view the car today more like a Torino or Chevelle was back then. The size and weight compared to the other two just make it hard for me to see it as direct competition.

That said I know they are cross shopped, and even I am considering a new Chally. I am also thinking of a Porsche, so my tastes are pretty eclectic when it comes to cars.

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