Is Ford lacking on performance?

[jake_zx2]

Speaking of trans cooling, has it been an issue (for some) with both the MT82 and 6R80 for track driving? I haven't seen many post about 6R80's on the track or potential issues with cooling. I know they're not the preferred transmission for road racing so that could be why there's not much info on this topic. Basically, on the same track, and on the same day, would the 6R80 overheat long before the MT82.

There really aren't many issues with MT-82 cooling, which is why I don't understand people making such a fuss about cooling. some people find that wrapping the exhaust beside the trans and using higher viscosity trans fluid helps prevent high heat. The biggest issue with the MT-82 was the high RPM lockout, which has been mostly fixed on the 2018

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[PJR202]

Hardly anyone even does autocross, much less actual track days. There's a huge aftermarket for those that do, and if you can afford regular track sessions you can afford a few suspension parts to get a leg up.

There's just not a huge incentive for Ford to do any more than keep it close. Plus they have considerable design and manufacturing costs for every single new component. I dont know what kind of cash they pull down for licensing and such from aftermarket manufacturers but I'm guessing it's considerable and a critical factor in the decision making process as new things are added to these cars.

 

[millhouse]

There really aren't many issues with MT-82 cooling, which is why I don't understand people making such a fuss about cooling. some people find that wrapping the exhaust beside the trans and using higher viscosity trans fluid helps prevent high heat. The biggest issue with the MT-82 was the high RPM lockout, which has been mostly fixed on the 2018

Exactly. If one goes into the track sub-forum and does a search, they will find very little complaining about the MT82 overheating. In all reality, with the MT82 having cooling fins I suspect most that encounter occasional overheating would be fine throwing on a scoop similar to the BOSS 302 LS.

Hardly anyone even does autocross, much less actual track days. There's a huge aftermarket for those that do, and if you can afford regular track sessions you can afford a few suspension parts to get a leg up.

There's just not a huge incentive for Ford to do any more than keep it close. Plus they have considerable design and manufacturing costs for every single new component. I dont know what kind of cash they pull down for licensing and such from aftermarket manufacturers but I'm guessing it's considerable and a critical factor in the decision making process as new things are added to these cars.

Yup. The very very small minority of people that push the MT82 around the track long enough to overheat should pony up for a trans cooler. Ford has no reason to pay the engineering, development and validation costs to please 100 people.

Now the 2018GTPP2 not having extra cooling....that is a joke. It's got sport cup tires, WTF were you thinking Ford. It will be interesting to see if they at least incorporate something to re-direct air towards the MT82s cooling fins...or the rear diff.

 

[Hack]

Comparing cars through the years, it seems only the top models of mustangs get the extra cooling for hard use, and it usually seems to be another option, not standard.

Take a look at the camaro, which say what you will about them, has been one hell of a performance machine. i know they have their ZL1, ss1le versions to our pp1, pp2, or shelby's but it always seems like you get more with the chevy as standard. I will always say that ford has the better powerplant imo. The coyote is an awesome/ efficient engine and responds well to modifications.

If im buying one of these cars for track use, it doesnt seem like the fords have much in terms of cooling diffs, engine oil, trans, unless you step up to a shelby, and until 17+ that was an option. where the camaro seems to get extra cooling on all models for intended use. Ive also noticed that when tested, its usually a camaro 1le vs pp1 and the power is close but the handling always seems to be where the mustang gets left behind. I feel like the pp1 package should have wider/ better tires than the 255/275 combo which would really help.

I could ramble on back and forth all day, but wanted to get some thoughts, opinions, insights

Yes, Ford absolutely prioritizes daily usability and comfort over maximizing performance in their passenger cars. Crazy, huh? ;)

 

[bootlegger]

Now the 2018GTPP2 not having extra cooling....that is a joke. It's got sport cup tires, WTF were you thinking Ford. It will be interesting to see if they at least incorporate something to re-direct air towards the MT82s cooling fins...or the rear diff.

It would be nice if they at least offered it as an option, or maybe even a dealer installed Ford Performance package.

 

[millhouse]

It would be nice if they at least offered it as an option, or maybe even a dealer installed Ford Performance package.

It would be nice, but it doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint. You have 100 people nationwide that would order it (that actually need it), but it would cost thousands in engineering, validation and warranty. To Ford, it's purely a risk/reward scenario. How many lost sales would they have compared to the extra costs associated with adding the option?

Or think of it this way, how many camaro owners actually push their stock SS's to the limit to justify having a transmission and differential cooler? Would they really have lost any sales of the SS didn't have these? Think of the enormous pile of cash GM would have had if they eliminated the $200 worth of parts from 100k+ vehicles (thats $20 million in lost profit and growing by the way).

The aftermarket exists to fill these holes in. And before anyone chimes in with...but warranty! complaints, if you can afford the brakes, tires, fluid changes and track insurance for track days, you can most certainly afford to gamble with the very minor chance of a warranty denial from a trans or diff cooler.

 

[bootlegger]

It would be nice, but it doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint. You have 100 people nationwide that would order it (that actually need it), but it would cost thousands in engineering, validation and warranty. To Ford, it's purely a risk/reward scenario. How many lost sales would they have compared to the extra costs associated with adding the option?

Or think of it this way, how many camaro owners actually push their stock SS's to the limit to justify having a transmission and differential cooler? Would they really have lost any sales of the SS didn't have these? Think of the enormous pile of cash GM would have had if they eliminated the $200 worth of parts from 100k+ vehicles (thats $20 million in lost profit and growing by the way).

The aftermarket exists to fill these holes in. And before anyone chimes in with...but warranty! complaints, if you can afford the brakes, tires, fluid changes and track insurance for track days, you can most certainly afford to gamble with the very minor chance of a warranty denial from a trans or diff cooler.

They could offer the GT350 cooling package for the GT. It wouldn't take much more investment.

 

[millhouse]

They could offer the GT350 cooling package for the GT. It wouldn't take much more investment.

The GT350 has a different transmission.

And, the MT82 actually has cooling fins while the TR3160 does not.

I can't blame any of you for wanting more, but also don't blame Ford for relying on the aftermarket.

My advise, pick up this... https://www.steeda.com/ford-racing-...ion-cooler-air-scoop-15-16-all-m-5025-m8.html

...and give it a go. It in no way will void warranty and will likely cover 99% of peoples needs. Again, remember the MT82 has cooling fins....the scoop would likely be very effective at reducing trans temps.

 

[EFI]

They could offer the GT350 cooling package for the GT. It wouldn't take much more investment.

The only thing that is interchangeable between the two (diff cooler) they do offer it for sale.

 

[smbsocal]

GM and Ford both put out great cars. The GM will have more down low torque which may or may not be beneficial to you.

In terms of cooling they all have their own issues. Take for instance GMs overheating issues with the LT4. It has been a sore spot for people who put their cars through the paces. A number of people have started law suits against GM for misrepresentation, saying the platform is track ready when it overheats when used on the track.

 

[millhouse]

GM and Ford both put out great cars. The GM will have more down low torque which may or may not be beneficial to you.

In terms of cooling they all have their own issues. Take for instance GMs overheating issues with the LT4. It has been a sore spot for people who put their cars through the paces. A number of people have started law suits against GM for misrepresentation, saying the platform is track ready when it overheats when used on the track.

Anytime you add extra complexity, you add room for error. Late model Corvettes and Camaros have had recalls for leaking transmission cooler line failures. Everyone knows about the issues with the GT350. It all cost $$$$.

There is a reason Ford is relying on the MT82 cooling fins to do their job for the GT.

 

[GTP]

I wonder if in the parallel universe (aka Camaro forum) they are discussing "Why does the 1LE have coolers, when I would rather Chevy use the money to improve the interior instead of making it so track ready? That's what the Mustang has." :lol:

 

[GTP]

And as for rear brakes, there are 2 advantages of caliper brakes:
1) consistent performance over a long time (i.e. many miles), since there are no slider pins to corrode, and
2) appearance (obviously).

 

[Norm Peterson]

Yes, Ford absolutely prioritizes daily usability and comfort over maximizing performance in their passenger cars. Crazy, huh? ;)

It's crazy when that mindset is allowed to hold absolute priority over performance for option packages specifically pitched as optional performance upgrades. I'm looking directly at the PP1 here.


Norm

 

[millhouse]

I wonder if in the parallel universe (aka Camaro forum) they are discussing "Why does the SS have coolers, when I would rather Chevy use the money to improve the interior instead of making it so track ready? That's what the Mustang has." :lol:

Fixed it for ya.

GM guys will gloat about all of the extra cooling capacity they have when 99% of them will never see the track and weren't even aware about it when they purchased the car. I'm actually curious if the TR3160 would easily overheat at the track (like the GT350 non TP) because of it's lack of cooling fins. The trans cooler might actually be requirement rather than an "extra".

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