Is Ford lacking on performance?

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Camaro has been faster than the Mustang GT for quite a bit of time through the decades. It doesn't matter to most people. I DD mine and that's all I care about.

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[carlg]

Camaro has been faster than the Mustang GT for quite a bit of time through the decades. It doesn't matter to most people. I DD mine and that's all I care about.

Actually 2011 through 2015, the Mustang really kicked the Camaro's butt.

But Camaro did a redesign in 2016 which I think changed some things. It got pretty awesome!!

I test drove both (2017 Camaros and 2016/17 Mustangs)

I went with the 2016 Mustang for the interior. It was just so much better and comfortable.

Back in the day, I had a 94 Trans Am. It also was awesome. This Mustang for me, actually feels like that car although a different brand.

 

[carlg]

Actually 2011 through 2015, the Mustang really kicked the Camaro's butt.

But Camaro did a redesign in 2016 which I think changed some things. It got pretty awesome!!

I test drove both (2017 Camaros and 2016/17 Mustangs)

I went with the 2016 Mustang for the interior. It was just so much better and comfortable.

Back in the day, I had a 94 Trans Am. It also was awesome. This Mustang for me, actually feels like that car although a different brand.

Funny thing.

One of the other reasons I stuck with Mustang over Camaro (although I thought the Stang was a little performance deficient in comparison ) is you!!

The Mustang community is amazing and the Camaro community cannot come even close to comparison.

 

[1 old racer]

why bought mine

i bought my Mustang because it had great performance and loved the look and finish details i got for the $$$$. it is a perfect balance of all I wanted for under 50k. And with the money i saved under that 50k i have money to add my personal touches.

 

[Hi-PO Stang]

I think the Ford engineers have not had a long enough time to play with an IRS. They just need time to extract more performance from the IRS. We just need to be patient and let the Ford engineers know what we want.

 

[youra6]

ok i am a old track whore. i have been racing cars longer then most of the guys of the guys on this forum have been alive. With that said I can tell you with the right driver you can go around a tight track quicker in a Civic then you can in our GT's or the 1LE. For years i had a Honda S2000 as a track car, all she had was 245 h.p. Just for fun i took my modified CTSV with just a tad over 700 h.p., it too me several track sessions to match my lap times that i had in my S2000. Dont worry about which car looks better on paper. Learn all you can with your stock mustang, then add mods that are needed for your type of driving. Trust me even the above avg. driver cant get all the performance the stock GT has to offer.
i watched a 17 year old blond little girl in a stock 1987 nissan sentra kick the butts of many Mustangs, Camaros and 3 series bmw's in a autocross meet. The car is a tool just like the paint brush. it is the artist that makes the painting a master piece.

The S2000 is one the most balanced sports car ever made and has a ridiculous power to weight ratio. It weighs nearly 1K lb less than a Mustang.

It depends on the track, the windier the track the more it favors lighter cars with smaller displacement. This is especially true with autocross where the most you're going is around 60mph regardless of car driven. I can see a MX-5 destroying Mustangs on a autocross course. But on the Nurburgring, Laguna Seca, or Road America? The Mustang would easily win.

 

[e30og]

Chevy had the ATS platform which was newly developed and dedicated for small rwd. It's also lighter. They had better tools at their disposal and Ford decided not to spend the bread on that, for one reason or another and I get that.

If it gets too bloated or heavy or sloppy then my money will go elsewhere. I'm brand loyal but I'm gonna get my money's worth at the end of the day. Ford can certainly afford to bankroll a new mustang platform. Thirty to forty grand out of me it better be damn good. We'll see how the next gen goes but weight is creeping up every refresh. I waited for the 15s to buy when I was ready in '13 knowing it was a major change. I won't buy again until it's vastly different and certainly not of its lacking in performance or too heavy. Or if it still has manual reclining seatbacks haha

 

[Norm Peterson]

Really, the only thing the GT is lacking is cooling and rear brakes (Which is debatable). other than that, PP2 is pretty much a GT with GT350 suspension

It shouldn't have taken Ford two tries (and three years) to get there in terms of wheels, tires, and suspension tuning, either. Not when the 1LE had already been out for a couple of years before the S550 even debuted.


Norm

 

[Eritas]

Camaro is better for the track. Unless you go with the GT350.

 

[Grintch]

Really, the only thing the GT is lacking is cooling and rear brakes (Which is debatable). other than that, PP2 is pretty much a GT with GT350 suspension

So why does it lack it?

The package is almost the same price as the 1LE package, yet the 1LE includes the cooling and 2 pc rotors. The 1LE is a ZL1 without the pricey motor, but all the suspension and most of the cooling bits.

Why isn't the PP2 a GT350 without the pricey motor? If anything, this would reduce the development cost of the in between bits and reduce the number of parts Ford/dealers have to stock/track.

How much brains does it take to look at your exiting competition, and meet or beat them? A 2015 GT PP could be forgiven somewhat because it was $3K cheaper than a SS and $10K cheaper than a 1LE. But the 2018 PP2 is essentially the same price (sometimes more), yet is still missing 1LE equivalent hardware.


Plus Chevy seems to make more of their limited edition Camaro's, resulting in lower street prices verses the Shelby's.

 

[howlins550]

So why does it lack it?

The package is almost the same price as the 1LE package, yet the 1LE includes the cooling and 2 pc rotors. The 1LE is a ZL1 without the pricey motor, but all the suspension and most of the cooling bits.

Why isn't the PP2 a GT350 without the pricey motor? If anything, this would reduce the development cost of the in between bits and reduce the number of parts Ford/dealers have to stock/track.

How much brains does it take to look at your exiting competition, and meet or beat them? A 2015 GT PP could be forgiven somewhat because it was $3K cheaper than a SS and $10K cheaper than a 1LE. But the 2018 PP2 is essentially the same price (sometimes more), yet is still missing 1LE equivalent hardware.


Plus Chevy seems to make more of their limited edition Camaro's, resulting in lower street prices verses the Shelby's.

Yes, exactly.

 

[jake_zx2]

Trust me guys, I agree completely, they COULD have done better. My point is that I don't think they HAD to.

Yes, the 1LE had been out for a few years when the S550 debuted. But, the S550 also outperformed the 5th gen 1LE, so they did fine there. I think they got a bit blind-sided by how good the 6th gen 1LE was, but it only took 2 years for them to get to that point as well.

I honestly think that the PP2 will run similar, if not better lap times as the 1LE as it sits. THAT'S why Ford didn't need to add all these fancy (and expensive) parts. No, sharing parts with the GT350 would not have cost less money, because 2 piece 15.5" rotors cost more than one piece 15", and the brembos on the GT350 cost a good bit more than the GT's front brembos. Not to mention, using GT350 brakes means that they would have to use the same hubs as the GT350 because they're radial mounted. in the rear (and maybe the front, I'm not sure), using GT350 hubs would mean having to use GT350 rear lower control arms, which cost more than the mass-produced version. Rear diff cooling from the GT350 could carry over, but nothing else could since they have different transmissions and different front ends.

Yes, there are some places that Ford may have been able to do better, but that would have come with a price, and then people would be bitching about that. Really, I think you guys are overreacting about the few downfalls we have to the Camaro. Would I have like to have seen these deficiencies be fixed? Of course. But I also understand why they didn't

 

[Fatguy]

What is truly funny is that the people that bake performance in your Ford car don’t drive Mustang GTs. In fact I took a look through the parking lots and several Toyota 86s and that was about it. And yet there was the racing trailer for Mustangs in the back lot... Forget about Mustangs, these same people design suspension parts for F1 and the majority of the 24hrs of Le Mans. In my opinion Ford has it all over GM; whether it trickled down to us low life’s on the street is another matter. But I for one have seen it with my own eyes and felt it with my own hands. I actually saw the building of the first prototype Ford GTs back in the day. I was on the tarmac for its first drive at a massive 5 kilometres an hour. And now it’s what - 216 miles an hour? Performance at Ford is not lacking.

Ok so now you can forget about what I just said because I drive a V6 Mustang. :lol:

 

[jake_zx2]

What is truly funny is that the people that bake performance in your Ford car don’t drive Mustang GTs. In fact I took a look through the parking lots and several Toyota 86s and that was about it.

As much as I can't stand the 86, I really do wish ford would push more in that direction... downsizing slightly, light weighting, more advanced suspension geometry, etc.

I think we all know ford has the ability to do great things in terms of performance, the issue is that they don't have the budget to do so, and that's where Jim Hackett is killing us. He's not worried about budgeting performance cars, because when put beside crossovers and trucks, the sales on them are abysmal. I really think a good corporate strategy that could help not only the quality of the cars but also the stock price would be to buy into other brands. That's part of the reason GM is so successful, they have income from every market available. they are also able to utilize platform/parts sharing on a more broad scale which gives them more justification to spend a lot of money on a single car.

Hell, even if Ford would give Lincoln a high dollar RWD Luxury coupe/sedan to combat the M3/M4 and share the platform with the mustang, at least that would give them some justification to spend a bit more money on it

 

[2015Etrac]

The trans and diff cooling are a pretty significant thing and absolutely should be on the PP2. Huge miss by Ford on that.

Speaking of trans cooling, has it been an issue (for some) with both the MT82 and 6R80 for track driving? I haven't seen many post about 6R80's on the track or potential issues with cooling. I know they're not the preferred transmission for road racing so that could be why there's not much info on this topic. Basically, on the same track, and on the same day, would the 6R80 overheat long before the MT82.

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