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Is Ford lacking on performance?

howlins550

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Comparing cars through the years, it seems only the top models of mustangs get the extra cooling for hard use, and it usually seems to be another option, not standard.

Take a look at the camaro, which say what you will about them, has been one hell of a performance machine. i know they have their ZL1, ss1le versions to our pp1, pp2, or shelby's but it always seems like you get more with the chevy as standard. I will always say that ford has the better powerplant imo. The coyote is an awesome/ efficient engine and responds well to modifications.

If im buying one of these cars for track use, it doesnt seem like the fords have much in terms of cooling diffs, engine oil, trans, unless you step up to a shelby, and until 17+ that was an option. where the camaro seems to get extra cooling on all models for intended use. Ive also noticed that when tested, its usually a camaro 1le vs pp1 and the power is close but the handling always seems to be where the mustang gets left behind. I feel like the pp1 package should have wider/ better tires than the 255/275 combo which would really help.

I could ramble on back and forth all day, but wanted to get some thoughts, opinions, insights
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Anthony 05 GT

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If you are spending your time on a road course beating on the car then the GM product is more suitable in stock form. For every day driving the GM product is inferior IMO. There are trade offs with everything in life.
 
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howlins550

howlins550

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If you are spending your time on a road course beating on the car then the GM product is more suitable in stock form. For every day driving the GM product is inferior IMO. There are trade offs with everything in life.
I agree on the trade-offs, i just think that ford could step up a little more, especially for the price points. Re-reading the 18 1le vs 18 gtpp1 article, the mustang lost on streets of willow by 3.3 sec. The pp2 on their track beat the pp1 by 3.5 sec with no additional power/tq increase. thats huge with just some suspension tweaks and better tires.

Also, i feel as if the PP packs should have brembo's on all fours
 

Anthony 05 GT

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I can't argue with that.
 
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howlins550

howlins550

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Ford should make the PP1 the base GT, PP2 should be the PP1 or 1LE version of the mustang. Then step up to the shelby's.
 

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Honestly, I think Chevy knows they need to keep a leg up on the Mustang. If the Mustang and the Camaro were comparable in both performance and price point, the Camaro wouldn't have as much of a chance selling. The SS 1LE is one helluva car competing with cars at 2, 3, 4, and maybe even 5 times it's price. Still, I went to one Chevy dealer and they were willing to sell me a nicely optioned 1LE for $39,100 (sticker was over $45K). They had six on their lot. I dealt with four different Ford dealers and the best I could do was $41,000 on a car that stickered for right at the same amount. I liked the Camaro, but the PP1 Mustang I drove put a smile on my face that wouldn't go away. The Camaro didn't do that. My last fast car that I had since new and spent a lot of time with was a 2005 GTO (with a brief stint in a 2018 Corvette that came to me at a very tough time in my life - another story for another day). We have 3 Toyota's in the stable, and then my 2013 tuned F150 Ecoboost which is a true sleeper. My daughter has a 2011 V6 Camaro that has been rock solid. So, I'm not your typical brand loyal guy, but my next car is going to be a 2018 Mustang GT PP2 which won out over the Camaro.
 

Norm Peterson

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I agree on the trade-offs, i just think that ford could step up a little more, especially for the price points. Re-reading the 18 1le vs 18 gtpp1 article, the mustang lost on streets of willow by 3.3 sec. The pp2 on their track beat the pp1 by 3.5 sec with no additional power/tq increase. thats huge with just some suspension tweaks and better tires.
That horse has been beat way past being dead on every Mustang and Camaro forum already. Everybody knows it should have been same-day same driver 1LE vs PP2 for it to have been worth the time and ink spent. Never mind the flood of internet traffic over it.


Also, i feel as if the PP packs should have brembo's on all fours
Why? Rear brakes do only a small share of the braking, and the harder you brake the less that becomes. Too much rear brake will only put you into the ABS sooner, and your dry-pavement stopping distance could very well increase.


But I do agree that Ford has been a bit sluggish/stingy about equipping Mustangs (other than special editions) for road course duty.


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Fatguy

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Don’t forget the world does not revolve around one guy driving both cars and finding one is faster. Sure if you want to go fastest you would pick the Camaro. But there are other cars out there you can drive. Just saying.....

Mostly you are just there to improve your times and if you are truly competitive then you can worry about the other guy. You can win if you make the other guy do something stupid. And you can win if the other guy is driving a Camaro but is too chicken to push his limits.


If you guys have ever won a competition of any kind you wil know what I am talking about. The equipment is secondary in so many ways.
 
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howlins550

howlins550

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Don’t forget the world does not revolve around one guy driving both cars and finding one is faster. Sure if you want to go fastest you would pick the Camaro. But there are other cars out there you can drive. Just saying.....

Mostly you are just there to improve your times and if you are truly competitive then you can worry about the other guy. You can win if you make the other guy do something stupid. And you can win if the other guy is driving a Camaro but is too chicken to push his limits.


If you guys have ever won a competition of any kind you wil know what I am talking about. The equipment is secondary in so many ways.
Agree, I'm speaking in terms of same driver, different cars. Also the fact that the Mustang and Camaro are direct competitors and have essentially the same price points
 

scrubber3

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Agree, I'm speaking in terms of same driver, different cars. Also the fact that the Mustang and Camaro are direct competitors and have essentially the same price points
Your last statement isn't true.
 

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lack of performance?

ok i am a old track whore. i have been racing cars longer then most of the guys of the guys on this forum have been alive. With that said I can tell you with the right driver you can go around a tight track quicker in a Civic then you can in our GT's or the 1LE. For years i had a Honda S2000 as a track car, all she had was 245 h.p. Just for fun i took my modified CTSV with just a tad over 700 h.p., it too me several track sessions to match my lap times that i had in my S2000. Dont worry about which car looks better on paper. Learn all you can with your stock mustang, then add mods that are needed for your type of driving. Trust me even the above avg. driver cant get all the performance the stock GT has to offer.
i watched a 17 year old blond little girl in a stock 1987 nissan sentra kick the butts of many Mustangs, Camaros and 3 series bmw's in a autocross meet. The car is a tool just like the paint brush. it is the artist that makes the painting a master piece.
 
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howlins550

howlins550

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ok i am a old track whore. i have been racing cars longer then most of the guys of the guys on this forum have been alive. With that said I can tell you with the right driver you can go faster around a tight track quicker in a Civic then you can in our GT's or the 1LE. For years i had a Honda S2000 as a track car, all she had was 245 h.p. Just for fun i took my modified CTSV wth just a tad over 700 h.p. it too me several track sessions to match my lap times. Dont worry about which car looks better on paper. Learn all you can with your stock mustang, then add mods that are needed for your type of driving. Trust me even the above avg. driver cant get all the performance the stock GT has to offer. i watched a 17 year old blond little girl in a stock 1987 nissan sentra kick the butts of many Mustangs, Camaros and 3 series bmw's in a autocross meet. The car is a tool just like the pant brush. it is the artist that makes the painting a master piece.
While I agree with and have stated before that the driver makes the car. Unless you are on a small, tight autox there is no way your talks of a civic unless highly modified, are coming close to what the new 1le or pp1/2 are doing with any decent driver. As for on paper, I throw that pretty much out the window, my main concern here was that dollar for dollar the performance enhancements of the Camaro seem to be better than the pp1. I'm still waiting for an actual review of a PP2 car, which from what is available should perform much better than the pp1 car when pushed
 

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Agree, I'm speaking in terms of same driver, different cars. Also the fact that the Mustang and Camaro are direct competitors and have essentially the same price points
scrubber3 said:
Your last statement isn't true.
For a while Camaro was priced anywhere from $1,500 - 3,000 more than similarly equipped Mustangs. What I am seeing for 2018 is that they are VERY close, with Mustang actually a bit higher.

I priced a 2018 GT PP1 coupe within a few hundred dollars of my 2017 2SS Camaro convertible that has every option available except a couple dealer accessories (black bowties is all I can think of)

I also priced a 2018 GT PP1 convertible that was about $2,000 more than my car. Content is similar except Ford doesn't offer HUD or 30 mph top operation + hard tonneau. A 2018 2SS convertible would be about the same as my car or a little less, since I have a $1,750 anniversary model option that would more than offset any price increase from a '17 2SS to an '18.
 
 




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