Is Ford lacking on performance?

[martinjlm]

Jesus Christ, go buy a Camaro and be happy.

Yup. At the end of the day....Mustangs are great cars. Camaros are great cars. Pick one and do your thang.

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[SlaughterOfTheSoul]

ok i am a old track whore. i have been racing cars longer then most of the guys of the guys on this forum have been alive. With that said I can tell you with the right driver you can go around a tight track quicker in a Civic then you can in our GT's or the 1LE. For years i had a Honda S2000 as a track car, all she had was 245 h.p. Just for fun i took my modified CTSV with just a tad over 700 h.p., it too me several track sessions to match my lap times that i had in my S2000. Dont worry about which car looks better on paper. Learn all you can with your stock mustang, then add mods that are needed for your type of driving. Trust me even the above avg. driver cant get all the performance the stock GT has to offer.
i watched a 17 year old blond little girl in a stock 1987 nissan sentra kick the butts of many Mustangs, Camaros and 3 series bmw's in a autocross meet. The car is a tool just like the paint brush. it is the artist that makes the painting a master piece.

Well autocross is made for cars like civics, so that's not surprising.

Driving a stock civic around long fast turns is a death sentence. Doing that in all the other cars you mentioned because a none-issue entirely.

 

[howlins550]

Jesus Christ, go buy a Camaro and be happy.

haha triggered much? I actually prefer the mustang, but being that this is a forum where people can discuss these kinds of things openly, i posted this for debate. Keeping an open mind on things is a great thing, you should try it. But since we're here, i built a mustang and camaro as close performance/ options as possible.

Mustang $51,280
Camaro $49,995

and you get more standard features with the camaro, so back to what i was saying/asking is ford lacking in performance or are they just being greedy with upgrades?

 

[howlins550]

Yup. At the end of the day....Mustangs are great cars. Camaros are great cars. Pick one and do your thang.

Again, i agree and personally dont think there is a bad choice. However, for the most part i am assuming that we are all mustang fans here? so with that, there has to be some part of you that gets a little competitive when competition out does you, or can openly talk about different cars that compare to what we drive?

 

[Bald Menace]

I've owned New Camaro's and New Mustangs and a lot of each. the biggest difference i noticed between the two is the Camaro always has more low end torque and more options standard. the Mustangs seem to have much better paint quality and better auto transmissions. the Camaro feels like a Hot Rod from the instant you push the gas pedal because of that low end Torque, the Mustang requires taking effort to get that feeling. oddly enough the 1/4 mile performance is very similar. both are great cars.

 

[jake_zx2]

Ultimately, it really does just come down to preference nowadays. PP2 vs 1LE is going to be close. I wouldn't be surprised if PP2 is SLIGHTLY faster than the 1LE, but like previously mentioned, the 1LE has coolers that will allow you to track all day.

Now, the only place the mustang really has any sort of significant on-track cooling issues is the rear diff, and that's only on sticky tires and can be cured with a heavier diff fluid. Rear brembos would be cool, but like Norm said, unnecessary. Some 4 piston monoblock brembo rears would probably reduce a little bit of unsprung mass, but as far as braking goes, our 6-pot fronts do great and can perform fairly close to the Camaro.

 

[martinjlm]

Again, i agree and personally dont think there is a bad choice. However, for the most part i am assuming that we are all mustang fans here? so with that, there has to be some part of you that gets a little competitive when competition out does you, or can openly talk about different cars that compare to what we drive?

No doubt. Comparisons and competition are great. That's what makes these cars so awesome. There are teams of very smart, very talented people in Dearborn and Warren that are putting great energy into making their product the better competitor on a number of different fronts from styling to performance to handling to ride quality.

But what good does it do to out of hand trash the competitor instead of finding all the things that make your favorite great? I prefer Camaro but like Mustang almost as much and for certain model years prefer Mustang. Over my 38 years working at GM I have owned four Mustangs. Trashing Mustangs doesn't make my Camaro a better car. Ditto the reverse, and I do say the same thing over on the Camaro forums. Trashing Mustangs doesn't make Camaro any better.

There are things I prefer in the S550 over the 6G Camaro. The things where I prefer the Camaro over the Mustang mean more to me than do the things where I prefer the Mustang. I'm sure that equation falls on the other side of the ledger for people who buy Mustang.

 

[JohnD]

That horse has been beat way past being dead on every Mustang and Camaro forum already. Everybody knows it should have been same-day same driver 1LE vs PP2 for it to have been worth the time and ink spent. Never mind the flood of internet traffic over it.



Why? Rear brakes do only a small share of the braking, and the harder you brake the less that becomes. Too much rear brake will only put you into the ABS sooner, and your dry-pavement stopping distance could very well increase.


But I do agree that Ford has been a bit sluggish/stingy about equipping Mustangs (other than special editions) for road course duty.


Norm

Totally agree on the first part, time to just move on. That is until they do test a PP2 vs 1LE and it will rage on again.

My rear rotors consistently run 100F hotter than the front ones on the track. I do feel they're a little undersized compared to the PP1's 6 pot Brembos and 15" rotors.

Totally agree on the last part too, they're also kind of sluggish/stingy about providing warranty for issues with car driven on track. I would add that Ford's practice now of making you take premium group upgrades to get PP1 and up is rather ignorant as well, certainly not going to help performance by adding weight, though no doubt Ford is liking the boost to their bottom line.

 

[zero_chance]

Ford must be doing something right, they beat out the other two main competitors. Here's the quote on 2017 sales from Autodata:
Winner: Mustang. Ford freshened up the Mustang, facing a Camaro and a Challenger that came on strong . Ford sold 81,866 Mustangs, Chevy moved 67,940 Camaros and Dodge hawked 64,537 Challengers.
I do agree that Ford typically has been reluctant to throw every feature on their cars, not really sure as to why. But having owned an 88, 91, 94, 95 a 2000 and now the 17, man have they come a long way.

 

[Norm Peterson]

But this thread isn't about sales at all, it's about Ford's stinginess about reserving the good corner-carving parts for the limited editions and leaving the mainstream trims with built-in handicaps.


Norm

 

[jake_zx2]

Really, the only thing the GT is lacking is cooling and rear brakes (Which is debatable). other than that, PP2 is pretty much a GT with GT350 suspension

 

[BmacIL]

Really, the only thing the GT is lacking is cooling and rear brakes (Which is debatable). other than that, PP2 is pretty much a GT with GT350 suspension

The trans and diff cooling are a pretty significant thing and absolutely should be on the PP2. Huge miss by Ford on that.

 

[howlins550]

The trans and diff cooling are a pretty significant thing and absolutely should be on the PP2. Huge miss by Ford on that.

Definitely, I feel Ford has always had a problem with this. The gt350 is track focused yet until 17+ it was an option to get the track pack with cooling. Don't design, build, market, and hype up a car as a track monster and not equip it with proper equipment. PP2 has a lot of promise but definitely should have additional cooling.

 

[Coolmanfoo]

Okay listen buddy's. My mustang is slower than an old 90s GMC van. Let me explain. The other day I'm doing some back road driving and it's spirited. All of a sudden this van is on my ass, he over takes me on a double yellow on a curvy road. He was gone. Didn't see him again and I couldn't keep up if I wanted to, mainly because I'm not an idiot.

That got me to thinking it doesn't really matter how fast any car is. It's all about the driver. Now on a road course it's different of course but how many of you make it to a road course more than once a year? The mustang is a jack of all trades and in my opinion it oozes personality and history.

So should cares what's faster or slower.

 

[howlins550]

Okay listen buddy's. My mustang is slower than an old 90s GMC van. Let me explain. The other day I'm doing some back road driving and it's spirited. All of a sudden this van is on my ass, he over takes me on a double yellow on a curvy road. He was gone. Didn't see him again and I couldn't keep up if I wanted to, mainly because I'm not an idiot.

That got me to thinking it doesn't really matter how fast any car is. It's all about the driver. Now on a road course it's different of course but how many of you make it to a road course more than once a year? The mustang is a jack of all trades and in my opinion it oozes personality and history.

So should cares what's faster or slower.

Lol troll of the thread award goes to.....

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