I hope not - Autoweek: next generation is last ICE Mustang

[gimmie11s]

But we are, when governments are banning the sale of ICE cars and manufacturers end the production of ICE cars themselves I would call that "being forced". Maybe not in a year, but at this rate it will be by the end of the decade.

100%

Its obvious that's what is happening while the people calling you a hypocrite are the hypocrites.

To say "no one is being forced" is patently false and everyone knows it.

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[Bikeman315]

im convinced the most efficient way to do this at this point is to have an electric car with a very small gas motor that charges its batteries.

My son in law just got a BMW i3 hybrid. A damn cute little car. Installed a level two charger. Goes from 10% to 100% in four hours (overnight at the lowest rates). Gets four days of commuting back and forth to work on a single charge. For him this is the perfect car. But it's not for everyone.

 

[Strokerswild]

Generally, any "evolution" to a technology needs to occur naturally. If it needs to be regulated into use, it probably isn't ready. Over the course of history many technological changes occurred on their own as the inherent advantages became apparent and the technology matured to allow a seamless transition. Forcing or mandating anything to change by outlawing the previous and proven tech before the new tech is completely mature is a horrible idea, whether it's electric cars, power generation, or anything in between.

They'll get there, but it'll take time. Probably a long time, but they're progressing. BEVs don't have a place in my reality until I can drive one, fully laden with gear, on a 500-mile round trip to northern MN with several days in between sitting idle in subzero temps with no option to recharge. I'd be dead in the water, perhaps literally, trying this with a current BEV.

I'm fully on board with hybrids. BEVs, well, they're for urban commuting right now.

 

[Bikeman315]

100%

Its obvious that's what is happening while the people calling you a hypocrite are the hypocrites.

To say "no one is being forced" is patently false and everyone knows it.

To say "everyone" is being forced is patently false and everyone knows it. Yes there are European countries that will be mandating the end of ICE cars as we know them today but that's not us. In the US there are some states that are committing to end sales of new ICE cars but that is years away and will not prevent any of us from getting ICE vehicles. Yes, there will become a point where the scales tip and you will need to buy an electric vehicle but I'm certainly not going to concern myself about it in 2022.

 

[Bikeman315]

But we are, when governments are banning the sale of ICE cars and manufacturers end the production of ICE cars themselves I would call that "being forced". Maybe not in a year, but at this rate it will be by the end of the decade.

It will hardly be at the end of the decade. ICE vehicles will be made and sold for many years to come. I would certainly not worry about something that is going to happen in the future. It's not as if we can actually change anything.

And about the lithium battery thing, a cell phone battery is 1/1000th the size of one in a Tesla.

Sorry, but pointless. Billions of portable devices against maybe a couple of million EV's. Do the math. Besides you still have to mine, extract and produce the lithium regardless of where and how much of it is used. Also keep in mind that there is significant research and development in producing non lithium batteries for EV use. Can't see that being done in the portable space.

 

[Bikeman315]

Forcing or mandating anything to change by outlawing the previous tech before the new tech is completely mature is a horrible idea, whether it's electric cars, power generation, or anything in between.

100% agree. I don't like it but it appears that's the path we are going down. What I really do not want to see in this country is a federally mandated law banning the production of ICE. That would be a disaster. Here in sunny warm South Carolina I do not think I need to worry about State mandates.

They'll get there, but it'll take time. Probably a long time, but they're progressing. BEVs don't have a place in my reality until I can drive one, fully laden with gear, on a 500-mile round trip to northern MN with several days in between sitting idle in subzero temps with no option to recharge. I'd be dead in the water, perhaps literally, trying this with a current BEV.

The range issue will be solved first. We are already headed in the right direction there. Ultra cold weather still needs to be resolved. The answer to your charging issue is solar but that still needs to be developed. Like you said, in time, but certainly not now. The current product doesn't fit your purpose.

I'm fully on board with hybrids. BEVs, well, they're for urban commuting right now.

Absolutely. My son in laws i3 is a perfect example. You always have to match the purchase to the purpose.

 

[ay1820]

To say "everyone" is being forced is patently false and everyone knows it. Yes there are European countries that will be mandating the end of ICE cars as we know them today but that's not us. In the US there are some states that are committing to end sales of new ICE cars but that is years away and will not prevent any of us from getting ICE vehicles. Yes, there will become a point where the scales tip and you will need to buy an electric vehicle but I'm certainly not going to concern myself about it in 2022.

100% Agree! The idea that the US government could force anything like this is a fantasy. First off, our government is so deadlocked that passing any legislation this radical would be impossible. Second, if some sort of truly radical legislation or regulation did manage to get through, it would simply be overturned by the next administration.

Everyone on the internet loves to engage in hyperbole and take every last argument to the most extreme limits (I'll admit to falling into the trap myself from time to time). But if EVs don't work, they won't sell. If they are too expensive, the won't sell. If they don't solve the range and charge time problems, they won't sell (except maybe to short distance commuters). If we don't upgrade our power grid (which we desperately need to do regardless of EVs) making charging slow and unreliable, they won't sell. If electricity prices skyrocket, they won't sell. If any of the problems come to pass that those who oppose EVs as a concept regularly raise, they ... won't ... sell!

I trust in our free market economy. I wish more of those who are pushing this country in one direction or the other did too. It is a big part of what made us such a great country.

 

[gimmie11s]

100% Agree! The idea that the US government could force anything like this is a fantasy. First off, our government is so deadlocked that passing any legislation this radical would be impossible. Second, if some sort of truly radical legislation or regulation did manage to get through, it would simply be overturned by the next administration.

Everyone on the internet loves to engage in hyperbole and take every last argument to the most extreme limits (I'll admit to falling into the trap myself from time to time). But if EVs don't work, they won't sell. If they are too expensive, the won't sell. If they don't solve the range and charge time problems, they won't sell (except maybe to short distance commuters). If we don't upgrade our power grid (which we desperately need to do regardless of EVs) making charging slow and unreliable, they won't sell. If electricity prices skyrocket, they won't sell. If any of the problems come to pass that those who oppose EVs as a concept regularly raise, they ... won't ... sell!

I trust in our free market economy. I wish more of those who are pushing this country in one direction or the other did too. It is a big part of what made us such a great country.

And Liz Cheney is an easy win in Wyoming.

 

[paulm1]

Kind of ironic that in a forum about a car named after a horse that people think 100+ yrs of ICE personal transportation is suddenly going to go away because of the "climate religion". Horses and a few other 4 legged beasts that emit methane and CO2 were personal transportation for 5000+ yrs before the ICE. And you think the ICE is going away in 10yrs......LoL.

 

[Bikeman315]

And you think the ICE is going away in 10yrs......LoL.

None of us are saying that. Could be that is what you want to hear. The availability of new ICE vehicles will diminish over the course of time, a long time. As EV technology improves, prices come down, and the infrastructure gets rebuilt they will become more popular. That will mean more sales. But no one is saying that is happening in 5 or 10 years. Enjoy your ICE as you are going to have it for a long time to come.

 

[Cobra Jet]

Laugh all you will - grids can't even sustain people using A/C in their homes in certain states. Add the influx of EV without any significant changes to the grid or improvements, it's all a shit show.

I'm not saying EV is evil, all I'm saying is - no one is looking at the big picture and EV production isn't any greener NOR the solution to force people into buying EV.

As was stated too - does everyone think the power grids are run by elf's or something, it's still reliant on old fashioned dino juice...

Will anyone on here buy a used EV where it's skateboard battery life expectancy has been drained and it will need a replacement? It's a YES or NO question, but everyone skips over it.

 

[NFG19]

Anyone know how many miles these batteries get before they crap out? 50k 100k?

 

[gimmie11s]

Laugh all you will - grids can't even sustain people using A/C in their homes in certain states. Add the influx of EV without any significant changes to the grid or improvements, it's all a shit show.


As was stated too - does everyone think the power grids are run by elf's or something, it's still reliant on old fashioned dino juice...

Reduce your standard of living you obtuse, racist American!

A/C in the summer! You should be ashamed.

 

[Strokerswild]

Reduce your standard of living you obtuse, racist American!

A/C in the summer! You should be ashamed.

I'm turning mine down to 66 when I get home and will then swill beer in my underwear in honor of this thread.

 

[Mspider]

Laugh all you will - grids can't even sustain people using A/C in their homes in certain states. Add the influx of EV without any significant changes to the grid or improvements, it's all a shit show.

I'm not saying EV is evil, all I'm saying is - no one is looking at the big picture and EV production isn't any greener NOR the solution to force people into buying EV.

As was stated too - does everyone think the power grids are run by elf's or something, it's still reliant on old fashioned dino juice...

Will anyone on here buy a used EV where it's skateboard battery life expectancy has been drained and it will need a replacement? It's a YES or NO question, but everyone skips over it.

So what should we as humans do? Delay electric until its better? The end game for transportation cannot be oil as we will run out.

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