HPDE - Harnesses

[moby4dick]

Hi All,

I’ll preface by saying I am a total newb to being on track, never been. Trying to get ready for this year, fingers crossed! My dilemna is with harnesses, doing it correctly as to be safe and pass any tech inspection. I have been doing a lot of searching and I”ve reached this conclusion, want to see if the informed concur.

For running factory seats, it’s the stock 3 point. The Schroth Profi ASM won’t cut it, neither will running 6 or 7 point harnesses sitting on the sub straps and running through the seat gap and attaching behind to the floor — as I see a member here selling an attaching bracket for that purpose.

Of course the safest way is to ditch the factory seats and run fixed back with the submarine slots. But then how to run on the street? Or do you guys just swap seats after track days? Then you’d be driving home with illegal harness, other than you lucky guys that can afford a track only toy that‘s trailered.

My goal is to simply have fun doing a few DE’s a year, pass tech inspection and be safe (and legal).

Thanks!

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[moby4dick]

In terms of the stock seats, if Ford would have just included a submarine slot, would have helped out…after all, they included shoulder slots…

 

[ZX3ST]

I haven't yet ran into a HPDE organization that required harnesses. I'm in the midwest, so YMMV. My recommendation for a first-timer/novice, stick with the OEM 3 point belts. You won't be doing anything dumb enough for a while where a harness is going to make a big difference.

If you're dead set on running harnesses, the Schroth quick-fit is accepted by all the organizations I've ever ran with. There may be some that don't. It's easy to unclip for when you're not using it.

FYI
PCA and other large organizations require a HANS when you're using any kind of harness. Their rules don't (yet) require additional rollover protection, but I expect that to change soon. At minimum they will shrivel their noses a bit during tech. IMO you really should consider at least a 4 point bar if you intend to run aftermarket restraints.

Also, many (if not all) orgs require "equal restraint". So your passenger needs to be afforded the same setup the driver has. If your instructor doesn't also own a HANS, you won't be using those harnesses for the event anyhow.

 

[Biggsy]

Schroth quick fit will be your best option. People do swap out seats but you really shouldn't have fixed back without a roll bar and so that will have to come out every time to (if you want). Hans and quick fit pro should be more than enough to start off and if you find yourself diving deeper then you make those changes to the safety equipment.

 

[themik99]

+1 for Schroth Quickfit Pro. I run them for my HPDE's with a Simpson Hybrid S in my car and they're a huge improvement over the stock 3 point belt.

You will likely have to buy a rear seatbelt buckle for your GT350R and install it. I had to do the same for my CFTP. It was fairly easy, and the new buckle sits nicely below the rear seat delete panel. I just take the rear seat delete panel out before a track day and reinstall it once I get back home.

 

[moby4dick]

I haven't yet ran into a HPDE organization that required harnesses. I'm in the midwest, so YMMV. My recommendation for a first-timer/novice, stick with the OEM 3 point belts. You won't be doing anything dumb enough for a while where a harness is going to make a big difference.

If you're dead set on running harnesses, the Schroth quick-fit is accepted by all the organizations I've ever ran with. There may be some that don't. It's easy to unclip for when you're not using it.

FYI
PCA and other large organizations require a HANS when you're using any kind of harness. Their rules don't (yet) require additional rollover protection, but I expect that to change soon. At minimum they will shrivel their noses a bit during tech. IMO you really should consider at least a 4 point bar if you intend to run aftermarket restraints.

Also, many (if not all) orgs require "equal restraint". So your passenger needs to be afforded the same setup the driver has. If your instructor doesn't also own a HANS, you won't be using those harnesses for the event anyhow.

Interesting, so you’re saying the QuickFit is acceptable. I did plan on getting the CMS roll bar for the shoulder straps plus (obviously) roll over protection. As I have no rear, seat, I’d have to get rear seat receivers. I did know about the equal restraint. Didn’t know about HANS being a requirement for harness.

What organizations did you run with? The only one I’m familiar with is NASA.

 

[ZX3ST]

Interesting, so you’re saying the QuickFit is acceptable. I did plan on getting the CMS roll bar for the shoulder straps plus (obviously) roll over protection. As I have no rear, seat, I’d have to get rear seat receivers. I did know about the equal restraint. Didn’t know about HANS being a requirement for harness.

What organizations did you run with? The only one I’m familiar with is NASA.

Here is a quote from PCA's rules as an example. Again, not every organization runs things exactly the same way. Quickfit may or may not be acceptable. You'll need to read the fine print.

In this case, PCA will accept a quickfit/quickfit pro but would NOT accept Schroth's universal 4pt ASM harness.

Whether or not your org requires a HANS with aftermarket restraints, I highly recommend it. You don't want to find out the hard way how Dale Earnhardt died............

I've ran with Porsche Club, Audi Club, BMW club, Rezoom, Chin, MVP, and NCM.

1. Vehicles without factory installed seatbelts must meet the following PCA rules: "If the participant chooses to install a 5 or 6 point driving harness (four point systems are subject to special rules set forth below) several changes to the automobile must be made to create a safe occupant restraint system. Harnesses must include an antisubmarine strap and be mounted in an approved manner consistent with the manufacturer’s instructions. The Harness system must be used in conjunction with a seat which has the supplied routing holes for the shoulder and anti-submarine belts. All pieces of the restraint system must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s instructions. Every driver and any passenger using other than a factory installed 3 point safety belt MUST also use a "HANS" device. The restraint system must also be equal for each occupant."

This means that a seat is required to have the proper routing holes for the harness as supplied by the seat manufacturer for the shoulder, lap and anti-submarine straps. The shoulder straps should be mounted at 90 degrees to the axis of your spine or at most 40 degrees down from horizontal. Because the addition of the harness system means that the occupants are fastened upright in the vehicle, a properly padded roll bar or roll cage is strongly encouraged to complete the SYSTEM. The use of one without the other may result in an unsafe environment and is not a COMPLETE SYSTEM. Harness straps have an expiration date, expired straps will not be allowed.

In addition to the standard SFI and/ or FIA approved five and/or six point system, the standard will allow a four point system that meets the following requirements:

• Meet the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 209
• Attaches to the factory seat belt mounting points
• Each belt is designed to work in a specific vehicle and that vehicle tag must be attached to the belt system

An example of a system that meets the above criteria is the Schroth Quick Fit system.

 

[shogun32]

Whether or not your org requires a HANS with aftermarket restraints, I highly recommend it. You don't want to find out the hard way how Dale Earnhardt died..

this makes no sense to me. a 3-point (sans airbag) is not going to change the trajectory of helmet+head. So why is that combo ok but a 4-point harness requires HANS to keep neck extension in check? Wouldn't a collar accomplish the same thing?

Racecars don't have air-bags AFAIK so unless you've disabled them, the airbag should act as a pseudo-HANS, no?

 

[Biggsy]

Regarding HANS safety. Seems appropriate. Despite the sarcastic title it has good info and examples between different harnesses and wearing HANS device.

 

[ZX3ST]

this makes no sense to me. a 3-point (sans airbag) is not going to change the trajectory of helmet+head. So why is that combo ok but a 4-point harness requires HANS to keep neck extension in check? Wouldn't a collar accomplish the same thing?

Racecars don't have air-bags AFAIK so unless you've disabled them, the airbag should act as a pseudo-HANS, no?

The video Biggsy posted pretty much covers it.

To be fair I think a HANS, even with a 3pt is a good idea. But there's only 1 option on the market that's certified for use with 3pt belts and it's EXPENSIVE. (Simpson Hybrid S)

The point I was attempting to make is that not all orgs require a HANS with a harness. And sometimes, those that do don't police it very hard. Cases like this are up to the user, and I wanted to pass along that I believe it to be a mistake to skip the HANS in these situations.

 

[moby4dick]

Thanks guys for all the info. That video was very informative. So I think I do need to check with the organizations I might be running with to find out exactly what their rules are before investing in any type of harness. But in any case, running any type of 6 or 7 point harness means an aftermarket seat, which seems to have various complications vis-a-vis all the modern airbag sensors. Again, really wish the Recaro had a sub slot!

On my previous Subaru, I had a racing seat which had a place for the the three point receiver on the slider and I only had to worry about the airbag sensor — 2.2 ohm resistor took care of that. Now it seems there are bladder pressure sensors, proximity sensors for the front airbags. Old car was a “vintage” ‘04…

 

[compprep]

Again, really wish the Recaro had a sub slot!

Any hot rod or custom car interior outfits in your area? They MIGHT be able to modify the seat by putting the sub slot in the seats. My $.02!

 

[tosha]

Is QuickFit Pro compatible/certified with all the regular HANS or are there any limitations to keep in mind?

 

[Biggsy]

Is QuickFit Pro compatible/certified with all the regular HANS or are there any limitations to keep in mind?

I haven’t seen anything it’s not compatible with. May be HANS that are 30 degrees but you shouldn’t buy that unless you are in a formula like style car I believe. They fit the regular 20 degrees though

 

[theruleslawyer]

I haven’t seen anything it’s not compatible with. May be HANS that are 30 degrees but you shouldn’t buy that unless you are in a formula like style car I believe. They fit the regular 20 degrees though

Isn’t a quick fit pro effectively a 3 pt in a crash? How would the hans stay secure when the seam rips?

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