Hellion Sleeper - BorgWarner Airwerks S200SX-E 7670

[BoostKing]

Hey!

So I am picking up a used Hellion Sleeper kit for my 2018 A10 from a buddy of mine and I had a few questions that I thought the community could help with. This kit has the S200SX-E 7670 Airwerks Turbos. I know they are journal bearing. I know they require oil and water cooling.

He mentioned some issues with these making power past 5,000. Said it looked like valve float though not likely. He believes this is due to the AR on the turbine (exhaust) being 0.83. He believes upgrading to the 1.00 AR would resolve this issue. Any of you have any experience with this?

I've read a few other threads regarding valve float and it all seemed to be different things for different people. Some said they needed springs which I doubt, some said it was the "header". Some said it was the exhaust after the turbo. LOL it gets a little convoluted and confusing.

Also, right now my car has Corsa Extremes. I know these have external dumped wastegates. Anyone have any sound clips at WOT with this kit (sleeper) and Corsa Extremes? Just want an idea of how the WOT sound will change. I love how the car sounds now.

Thanks guys! Looking forward to going boosted.

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[Zrussian13]

I have the sleeper kit with the base 62s. Hellion states the water cooling isn't necessary due to mounting them down low. I'm just running oil lines. The open wastegates sound amazing! It won't let me post an mp4 but I have a clip of them if you PM me I can send it to you. At the time of the video I made I was running a borla s type with the optional resonator. I just modified the s type to make it full 3" all they way back without being as loud as the s type was before the resonator. Came out nice and I've already got multiple compliments in just 2 days lol. Butt dyno can feel the turbos breathing better now as well.

Sorry can't help you with your AR question.

 

[BoostKing]

I have the sleeper kit with the base 62s. Hellion states the water cooling isn't necessary due to mounting them down low. I'm just running oil lines. The open wastegates sound amazing! It won't let me post an mp4 but I have a clip of them if you PM me I can send it to you. At the time of the video I made I was running a borla s type with the optional resonator. I just modified the s type to make it full 3" all they way back without being as loud as the s type was before the resonator. Came out nice and I've already got multiple compliments in just 2 days lol. Butt dyno can feel the turbos breathing better now as well.

Sorry can't help you with your AR question.

Thanks for the reply. I'll shoot you a PM.

 

[MKL_DS]

If they wouldn't make power past 5K they may be entirely undersized for what you are doing. Larger A/R should help, but might be a bandaid of sorts.

 

[BoostKing]

It's not so much that they wouldn't make power. On my friends car they still ended up making 700. It's just after 5,000 the graph gets really choppy and they could not figure out why.

I'll have them on my dyno once installed and considered just ordering the larger AR for the turbo housings and doing that when I install, but part of me says it's not the turbos. Seems strange for Hellion to sell a turbo kit with turbo options that could be "undersized" in general. I mean I would have preferred the 62's but these should work for now. I'm not going for crazy power, but would love to be able to use the 7000 or so RPM smoothly.

I figured someone else here may have had this problem on these 57's and maybe found a solution. I may just leave the turbine housing alone to start and see if it was just a tuning issue, or something with his car, however I dont think it was the car.

 

[aleccesarenriquez]

There could be a lot of issues there, many not necessarily related to the turbos. Here are some issues to consider:

1. I don't think that's valve float. The torque power band is barely tapering off which is normal at higher rpm (some boost controllers can remedy this by automatically adding duty cycle to the boost control solenoid to help maintain boost at the higher rpm). I used to have valve float at 7500+ rpm on anything more than 13 psi. I have pac valve springs now and valve float is gone. If it was float, and i'm almost certain it isn't, the car would feel like it falls on it's face the moment the valves started floating, i.e. the graph would have a drastic drop off, not a gradual taper.

2. It could be breakup. I'd confirm your plugs are gapped properly for the amount of boost you're running.

3. I've also seen dynos look noisy like that if they're not strapped down tight enough (causing the car to bounce a bit), if the dyno run was done on a drag radial, or if there was low air pressure in the rear tires.

4. Ask your tuner/his tuner. They could most likely tell you exactly what's happening. It's worth nothing that it's possibly a tuning issue. Data logs would help eliminate some variables for sure.

5. If you plan on running a lot of boost, it's within your best interest to shorten the exhaust length as much as possible to minimize back pressure. Realistically dumps will be the best. I know they can be really loud so maybe some resonators might help, but keep the exhaust length short, and make sure you have at least 6" after o2s.

6. Hellion headers have been shown to work fine, whether it's the modified stock ones or custom ones. Only way it's a header issue is if they're custom ones that weren't supplied with the kit and were designed poorly, or there is a defect/damage to the current headers. Even so, I don't believe the symptoms you're seeing point to this at all.



My turbos are comp 6467s with .82 AR and they have good spool time and make power efficiently. The turbos you're running will most likely be fine with that AR you have. I imagine they'll start to lose efficiency if you push them over 1000 due to their size but the AR is fine imo. Plenty of guys making a ton of power with similar ARs.

 

[BoostKing]

There could be a lot of issues there, many not necessarily related to the turbos. Here are some issues to consider:

Alec, thank you for the detailed reply. I do really appreciate it. I think I'm going to just start with the kit as is. The funny thing is I have tuned a couple Gen 1 and Gen 2 twin turbo setups, but they have always full effort on larger turbos. These were top mount systems with hood or bumper cut outs and not really a "street" set up.

This being for my car, and being I own my own tuning business, I will of course be tuning this car. I just wanted to see if there was any "mechanical" reason that this kit should choke like that. Like you mentioned Alec, I really don't believe it to be valve float.

I haven't been able to get the datalogs from the car these were on yet, but hopefully I can see something when I do. If not, this will be going on my dyno once it's installed (August) and I'll do my best to follow up with this.

I am not going for max effort yet. I'm going to start with about 6-7 psi, shooting for 650-700 whp on pump gas for now. E85 will come in to play later, but it's not readily available here yet so it will be for specific occasions. I have other supporting mods and things to buy before I push this set up further. Part of the reason for the turbo kit is it's flexibility to easily turn up or down as I want.

Thanks again for the response.

 

[kcc0521]

I am running the same kit on a stock 2015 block with stock valve springs. I made 930 with no issues. I think the tires might be spinning on the Dyno. I have the precision 62/66 turbos.

 

[wazslow]

I am running the same kit on a stock 2015 block with stock valve springs. I made 930 with no issues. I think the tires might be spinning on the Dyno. I have the precision 62/66 turbos.

How much boost? I assume E85?

I have the street sleeper kit on my 2016 with journal bearing precision 62/66's on E85. I've never had it on the dyno, but as far as I can tell I have not experienced valve float. My kit also has the boost actuated cutouts which may help.

 

[kcc0521]

How much boost? I assume E85?

I have the street sleeper kit on my 2016 with journal bearing precision 62/66's on E85. I've never had it on the dyno, but as far as I can tell I have not experienced valve float. My kit also has the boost actuated cutouts which may help.

15-16lb, pump E85 19 degrees of timing.

 

[BoostKing]

I appreciate the replies, but my question is more specifically about the BW 57mm turbos. Doesn't seem like a popular option for most of you.

 

[kcc0521]

I appreciate the replies, but my question is more specifically about the BW 57mm turbos. Doesn't seem like a popular option for most of you.

I think the general consensus in the crowd is your Turbos are not the problem at the power level you are at. there is something else going on.

 

[TX-Ripper]

You guys should know that @BoostKing is a Ford calibrator for sct.

 

[kcc0521]

You guys should know that @BoostKing is a Ford calibrator for sct.

I am not sure what that has to do with anything? I think we are all just trying to answer his questions. Basically there is no way those turbos are the problem if they are in good working order.

 

[BoostKing]

You guys should know that @BoostKing is a Ford calibrator for sct.

I am no longer with SCT. I was for 8 years.

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