GT500 vs...

[Nasty99z28]

1. If its less HP than the previous gt500 then its pretty much a sure thing it'll be alot lighter. That's a win unless your hung up on peak numbers.
2. How can you justify 400k for a GT w/ttv6 if you stuff that same engine into a 60k mustang? One would think a car like that would have a one off engine setup.
3. Sure the GT needs the smaller cubes for class racing and people understand but how would the "mustang" crowd feel about it even if it has tremendous potential?
4. If the mustang got the ttv6 would it also get a dct? If so could the cost stay around 60-65k?

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[thePill]

The issue with being over the 650hp target IS, you cannot exceed that without:

a.) Larger displacement:
While this is very easy to do with the Coyote and PTWA, the Gas Guzzler Tax looms. Please understand that the GGT scales depending on how poorly it performs. I think it starts at $1600 but goes up to $5000 if I remember correctly. I will post it up when I can. So, this is feasible but not probable. Maybe they try a 5.5 V8 and get the extra power but, the gas guzzler tax isn't a good thing.

b.) Direct Injection:
This, in my opinion, is mandatory now for ALL forced induction just on the cooling properties alone. DI is typically a 25-35hp increase but, as you pointed out, DI has its issues...

The answer? Direct-Port Injection or what some call Dual Injection. It uses Direct Injectors as DI does but, also makes use of traditional Port Injectors too. This allows for even more efficiency, better tune-ability, increased MPG's, HP and Torque and even better cooling... AND, it keeps the intake valves clean.

I believe Ford has a patent on this technology. It's one of the reasons Ford didn't build DI directly into most of its V8 engines.

More than likely a Direct-Port Injected Cobra Jet is the best option. But, many here fear anything under 650hp for some reason. An Ecoboost V8 would offer all kinds of power... just turn it up.

As it stands, any FI V8 would be hit with the GG Tax without DI. And, sorry to say, any V8 without DI will likely settle around 550-600hp... unless the 5.0 is taken out to 5.4-5.8 again (5.5 please). The GT350 approached the drivetrain like this too. I feel the Voodoo will be dropped to 5.0 as soon as DPI is incorporated into the engine. I also feel that one DPI is used in the EB2.3 that it will also be reduced to a 2.0 to help avoid the EU "over 2 liter" tax.

 

[mustang_guy]

I could get on board with the costs of modding a dual port injection for e85 if I didn't have to clean the damn valves. I really hope ford goes with dual port. You raised valid points I didn't think about with going over 600hp on the v8 platform.

 

[thePill]

1. If its less HP than the previous gt500 then its pretty much a sure thing it'll be alot lighter. That's a win unless your hung up on peak numbers.
2. How can you justify 400k for a GT w/ttv6 if you stuff that same engine into a 60k mustang? One would think a car like that would have a one off engine setup.
3. Sure the GT needs the smaller cubes for class racing and people understand but how would the "mustang" crowd feel about it even if it has tremendous potential?
4. If the mustang got the ttv6 would it also get a dct? If so could the cost stay around 60-65k?

All very good considerations...

1.) First the weight... The 5.8 engine was a beast on weight, even the aluminum one. It was around 580lbs I believe. All 3 engine options above are lighter HOWEVER, don't expect the GT500 to be under 3850lbs. No way, no how unless they go well beyond GT350.

2.) You can't justify the cost, which is another reason the highly exotic TT3.5 won't be used. Hopefully we can find some numbers on the engine.

3.) Class Racing (with an Ecoboost 5.0/TT5.0) could be where the GT500 is heading. The SC version is a no go... a major reason the "Mach 1" engine won't be used.

4.)That's exactly right... Will a GT500 meet the $59,995 target? Not likely unless they offer it with GTPP like equipment. Another reason the TT3.5 won't be used.


The GT500 and GT500KR will use engines we haven't seen before... The "Cobra Jet" will be the engine most widely used in other applications (maybe a Raptor). The TT GT500KR (if there is one) would be an engine dedicated to just that car, like the TT3.5 in the FGT. Another reason we won't see that engine (TT3.5).

 

[MadCow]

Like someone else said, I can't see Ford making the new GT500 heavier and with less than 662HP. Doesn't make sense. If they can't do any better then why make a new one. Dodge ain't having a tough time sellin Hellcats, matter of fact they are expanding the line. So big thirsty boosted V8's are still a thing.

People are also forgetting about the 6.2L platform thats been all but useless in the performance world. I know its unlikely but that would be a great surprise nobody was expecting. Roush pulled 7.5L out of one and made 850HP with it. That motor has all kinds of potential. If Ford ever meets the competition cube for cube its game over.

 

[thePill]

Like someone else said, I can't see Ford making the new GT500 heavier and with less than 662HP. Doesn't make sense. If they can't do any better then why make a new one. Dodge ain't having a tough time sellin Hellcats, matter of fact they are expanding the line. So big thirsty boosted V8's are still a thing.

People are also forgetting about the 6.2L platform thats been all but useless in the performance world. I know its unlikely but that would be a great surprise nobody was expecting. Roush pulled 7.5L out of one and made 850HP with it. That motor has all kinds of potential. If Ford ever meets the competition cube for cube its game over.

I think that is because there may in fact be TWO GT500's using TWO different engines.

Yes, one will be maybe have a 12hp lower peak output BUT, it will probably trump the Trinity's Torque using a Turbo and Direct Injection. Maybe even 650hp/650tq at 3950lbs.

Keep in mind, the KR will set people on crazy like the R did with the GT350. Especially if it's an 800hp Twin Turbo version.

This is why they are saving it for last...


...and why the GT500KR is called the King of the Road...


[ame]

 

[mustangletback]

Like someone else said, I can't see Ford making the new GT500 heavier and with less than 662HP. Doesn't make sense. If they can't do any better then why make a new one. Dodge ain't having a tough time sellin Hellcats, matter of fact they are expanding the line. So big thirsty boosted V8's are still a thing.

People are also forgetting about the 6.2L platform thats been all but useless in the performance world. I know its unlikely but that would be a great surprise nobody was expecting. Roush pulled 7.5L out of one and made 850HP with it. That motor has all kinds of potential. If Ford ever meets the competition cube for cube its game over.

i agree with what you said.i think roush had a 777,7liters,700hp,700TQ.that could be bumped up to 750hp,and call it the BOSS 429.Then the GT500 could get 850hp with a different motor,the the KR comes in at 925hp.:lol::cheers::ford:

 

[Erik427]

650hp is a sound number. Nobody is putting to the ground their rated power. Today's treaded tires just won't do it and Traction Control will not allow the slightest of wheel spin. To be honest, anything over 550 hp is just a number to brag about.

 

[Grimace427]

2.) Ecoboost 5.0 Coyote (Cobra Jet Engine) around 650hp.

The Cobra Jet uses a whipple supercharged 5.0 Coyote.

 

[eca77]

Doesn't the Raptor already have DPI on its 3.5L Ecoboost engine? I am waiting for that on the EB Mustang before getting one. Would love to see a 2.7L EB V6. That would be my pick, especially here in Europe where the higher volume costs an arm and a leg in taxes and the 5.0L is just expensive (like $600 a year more compared to $275).

 

[minjitta]

Could KR be FPC with FI, that would be crazy like GT350R

 

[thePill]

Here is a Production 5.0 Liter Coyote tuned to 450-500hp.

Used in the 2017 TVR and passes Euro Emissions...

http://news.boldride.com/2015/10/tvr-sports-car-ford-mustang-v8/91456/


Just wondering how Ford achieved such a feat

 

[mustang_guy]

Here is a Production 5.0 Liter Coyote tuned to 450-500hp.

Used in the 2017 TVR and passes Euro Emissions...

http://news.boldride.com/2015/10/tvr-sports-car-ford-mustang-v8/91456/


Just wondering how Ford achieved such a feat

According to the publication, the Coyote-based V8 will be built in-house by Cosworth and will tack on a TVR-specific engine management system, along with modifications like a lightweight flywheel, dry-sump lubrication, and specially rerouted exhausts. Oh yes, this new TVR is getting side pipes.

As far as the Cosworth-Ford relationship goes…it’s a long one, and includes highly-tuned Formula One racing engines, like the legendary Cosworth DFV V8s, as well as the punchy powerplants behind the bonkers Ford RS200 rally car and the Escort RS. Soon the pairing can add a two-seat, rear-wheel drive TVR with ground-effects and a Mustang V8 to that list.

In June, when the TVR announcement was made, the company hinted that it will bring four cars to market across the span of 10 years. According to the magazine, this will include the initial Gordon Murray-designed sports car (in standard and high-powered guises), a hardcore track car, and a one-make series race car (think Porsche GT3 Cup car).

A TVR will also go racing at the 24 Hours of Le Mans in 2018. While dyno testing Cosworth’s new Coyote-based engine, the team ran a simulation of the Le Mans circuit and the V8 allegedly produced enough torque to temporarily shut down the dyno. Mustang fans, rejoice.

Badass.

 

[thePill]

Badass.

Torque News suggest the Coyote is closer to 500hp now.

I would surely like to see how Ford-Cosworth got this to work, pass emissions and still deliver EU standard MPG's.

Well... I am waiting...


Edit: Anyway, the TVR Coyote probably holds some of the keys to the Gen 2 Coyote.

 

[thePill]

[ame]

Did he say 500 Torque? Would he be talking NM and not LB FT?

According to this guy (he stopped himself from speaking), the torque in this engine is the same as the current Coyote.

This could be very, very doable if the numbers aren't fluffed.

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